The battle against sex trafficking: Sweden vs. Denmark
Copenhagen's red light district pulsates with neon lights. Women stand on nearly every corner - many from Africa - aggressively making their pitch to men walking by. Inside one particularly loud bar, young Thai women sit on the laps of male customers.
And Stockholm? Well, you might walk right by its equivalent and never notice. Malmskillnadsgatan is a commercial area, the address of several banks. In its heyday, dozens of girls used to ply their trade here. Now, you can find only three or four women who work the street.
That stark difference may explain why Sweden is being hailed as a model of how to combat sex trafficking, while Denmark has been called the "Brothel of Scandinavia."
So, what happened?
In 1995, Sweden passed a tough bill that cracked down on prostitution. What made this law different, however, was who would be held responsible for the crime of prostitution. It's not illegal to sell sex. It is, however, illegal to buy sex.
The law was enacted as part of Sweden's push for gender equality. From a Swedish legal point of view, any woman selling sex has been forced to do so, either by circumstance or coercion. Anyone caught buying sex faces hefty fines, an embarrassingly public police notification and possible time in prison, with a maximum four-year sentence. So far no one arrested has served time.
According to the Swedish justice ministry, more than 70% in recent polls supported the law. Buying sex is looked down upon. There is even a slang term for those who buy sex.
"They're called a "cod," a fish," says Lise Tamm, a Swedish prosecutor of organized crime. "It's the same word as a loser, or [someone who] gets called by the police, or runs out of gas in his car. You're a loser if you buy sex in Sweden.
"We see it as a human right to have sexual integrity, physical integrity, and not to be forced to sell your body to strange men, 10 times a day. That's human rights to us."
At first, Sweden's neighbours in Europe dismissed the idea. But the law had an interesting knock-on effect, decreasing demand for prostitution and thereby sex trafficking.
Kajsa Wahlberg, Sweden's National Rapporteur on Human Trafficking, has undertaken annual assessments on the problem since the law was enacted. She recalls attending international meetings back in 1998 when Sweden was ridiculed for its approach. "I mean, I was told you can't do that. It's impossible," she recalls. "People could not even get it into their minds that it would have any effect on trafficking. But now I get the impression that people have stopped laughing and actually are looking seriously into what can we do."
Police say it's working; that customers don't want to risk punishment and that intelligence indicated pimps and traffickers quickly realized it was not worth bringing women into Sweden. Simply, there is not enough money to be made and the risk is too high.
But trafficking still exists and women still sell sex in Sweden. One young woman told CNN she was promised a cleaning job in Sweden - but within hours of arriving in the country she was locked in an apartment, raped and beaten and had her passport taken away from her.
While street prostitution has dropped dramatically, selling sex over the internet is still a thriving industry. But Stockholm police estimate that there are only about 200 prostitutes now working in a capital city of more than 2 million people.
It's all in stark contrast to Copenhagen.
Denmark decriminalized prostitution in 1999. The idea, in part, was that making it legal to sell sex would also make it easier to police. There are conditions, however: pimping is illegal and only legal residents can work as prostitutes.
Since then, Copenhagen's red light district has grown. The women walking the streets have also changed. About half used to be Danish, according to national police. Now most are African or from eastern Europe. There are no hard numbers on how many have been trafficked but social workers believe the vast majority are "vulnerable" to trafficking.
Michelle Mildwater, an anti-trafficking activist with Hope Now, walks the streets of Copenhagen almost every night, hoping to reach out to victims. She says she has seen the number of prostitutes from Africa triple in just two years, although specific numbers are difficult. "What we've got on the streets is the tip of the iceberg basically," she says. (Find out ways you can help)
The reality in Copenhagen is that the majority of prostitutes are managed by pimps, even though it's illegal. Complicating matters, many of the pimps and traffickers are themselves prostitutes, attempting to work their way out of the street by managing new recruits.
"We thought that these women would be trapped and kidnapped and they wanted to be saved and rescued and they wanted to go back home," says Anne Brandt-Christensen of the Danish Centre Against Human Trafficking. "But what we found out is that this is a much more complex phenomenon."
Danish police have to figure out which prostitutes are in the country illegally, which prostitutes may be victims of trafficking and which prostitutes may also be pimps and traffickers.
They believe that 95% of the prostitutes in Denmark are already familiar with prostitution when they arrive, know they need to cooperate with pimps to get on, and are not used to working with law enforcement. The police try to establish which of the prostitutes are there legally: those who are not will be transferred to the department that deals with illegal immigrants.
Denmark's National Centre Against Trafficking coordinates police and social services to effectively identify trafficking victims. When police raid a brothel, social workers are on hand. When they have identified a possible victim of trafficking, they are placed in a safe house for a "reflection period" of up to 100 days. If, at the end of that time, the victims have not cooperated with police to prosecute their traffickers, they are deported.
"Of course, we tell them [that] in the hope that they will tell us at least a little bit of the true story," says Brandt-Christensen. "Because of course many of them are scared to tell their stories. And they're also scared that the authorities get to know about them."
But most victims fail to cooperate, too scared to testify against their traffickers, walking out of safe houses and disappearing just before their "reflection period" ends.
Politicians in Denmark are now debating whether to adopt a Swedish-style approach to the problem. In Sweden justice ministry officials say they have had an increase for requests from other countries to explain how their anti-prostitution law works and how it might be adapted.
"The important thing is that any country should think about the question on demand." says Beatrice Ask, Sweden's minister of justice, "because you can't fight this organized criminality, which is often behind prostitution and trafficking for sexual purposes. You can't fight that by only looking to one side of the coin. If we could get rid of slavery, then I think this type of buying human beings is something that we have to fight too."
In Brazil there is a large amount of human trafficking especially teenagers. There areas most affected are Marajó, Pará, which are only accesible by boat. The teenagers are taken from Belém to Mozambique.For more information CNBB N2 PROJETO AMAR A VIDA. Congratulations on your project. Salete Hallack Director MHuD
Apparently the US has no problem with allowing illegal immigration also known as sex and drug trafficking.
Correction, American Heterosexuals do not care about trafficking. Abusing human life is what you Heteros excel at the most.
Thats right Kathleen, Gays have no sexual abnormalities or psychological problems. Blame it on the Heteros.
kATHLEEN,
For a group of people fighting for equal rights, writing discriminating remarks doesn't help your cause.
Is there any way to take kATHLEEN's idiotic comment down?
In Europe there are young men that are sold to became prostitutes for gays and bi, they come specially from Brasil.
Rumanian parents sell their boys to men in many cities in Europe, the abuse crosses all genders and races, it is big bussiness.
There are reports that very rich men are buying and the law can not touch them.
My, Kathleen, your grievance seems quite QUEER...
Wow Kathleen. Way to be retarded and hurt everything normal gays stand for. Heteros are more likely to support gay rights on two conditions. The first is that you don't threaten or insult them. The second is that you're not all up in their face about being gay. Way to break both of them.
LOL. Kathleen hit a nerve, eh? Reading the vitriolic responses means she's on the right track. It is a hetero problem ... worldwide. Moreover, sex trafficking and the exploitation of girls and women could be 'fixed' pretty much everywhere in the same manner that Sweden did. It's not rocket science; it's more a matter of will (i.e. morality over money) than anything. Sweden's a great country for women to live in (been there). It is also only one in 200+ countries in the world, including the U.S. and other industrialized nations, where females have any rights. What Sweden finally couldn't turn away from was: 1. It is demand, not supply and 2. men will stick it anywhere.
The women who are enslaved in Israel are forced to work up to 18 hours a day seven days a week. On average they are paid about 3 percent of the money charged for their work. Some are raped, beaten, and murdered. Others are traded for jewelry or food. Some are forced into sado-masochism for which the clients pay extra. Most women can’t run away — one woman did manage to escape but in retaliation her family’s home was firebombed.
The women can’t turn to the police because policemen are among the paying customers. The Committee reports that the Israeli judicial process is not favorable to these women and judges hand down light sentences or only community service to those convicted of running the prostitution rings.
The Committee is asking for tougher sentences.
The USA trafficking industry hides behind a facade of normality. By establishing employment agencies for immigrants, traffickers ensnare victims, usually women hoping to escape poverty in their own country or to send money home for their families. Often, these women immigrate to the U.S. after being promised a job through such fraudulent agencies. Typically, once they arrive they are stripped of their legal papers and passports, beaten, and locked in a room. Understandably confused, a captive woman may examine her surroundings to find a crude mattress on the floor and vermin for companions. Within a few hours, though, her first customers will arrive. Initially, the men, taking advantage of her confused state, may rape the victim. Armed men guard all the brothel doors, so escaping is out of the question. Language barriers usually prevent a victim from seeking aid, and, as brothels exist in the secrecy of the cities, most captured women are lost forever to the shadows.
Living in age where we give our civil liberties away here in the USA, is horrible. we fought to be this great nation from a revolution. Now, we give our rights away by letting a bloated federal government control our freedom. If the states wanted slavery to end in their state then they could do it, but they wait for the feds who have budget issues.
Kathleen, the point of a succesful civil rights movement is to be equal, not dominate. you are honestly retarded if you think gays are superior, no. all sexualities are equal. Tensor, do you really believe their is no such thing as women's rights outside of scandinavia? and I HIGHLY DOUBT you have traveled to 200+ industrial countries, logistically that would be impossible unless you have >$15 million and thus would not care about a "lack" of rights because you would have them endowed by your cash. second, there aren't even 200 industrialized countries in this world...dumbass
smh at the ignorance that is the american public
Boycott CNN and those trying to take away a man's right to see a courtesan or date internationally. If you believe all these lies about sex trafficking then you should at least ask yourself why a woman can not work as highly paid courtesan if she wishes to, and a man that doesn't want 18 years of 'slavery,' but rather just some enjoyable sex can not pay her a reasonable amount for her favors benefiting both in a completely honest and non-exploitive encounter. All these arguments against slavery have nothing to do with paying for sex with a professional courtesan who adds a lot more value to society than traditional wives after a man's property, who more than likely abuse their spouse and children.
Israel should not talk about human rights or slavery cz of thier recoord on human right violations towards the people of Palestine. Israel killing machine has been committing war crimes daily under the justification of the so called " the war on terror" . Looking at the world situation and the revolutions in the ME, I think things are moving toward the FREEDOME OF PALESTINE.
Give it a rest, this isnt the place for a rant from an islamic nazi
Give it a rest, this isn't the place to be disingenuous about Israel.
(Though the OP was certainly off-topic.)
How are Israel-critical comments nazistic?
Agreed.... Pro-Jihadi anti-Israel rants are appropos of what here?
Who cares, yeah, your right, Israel is a terrorist country, but so are the palastinians, I say let them kill each other, I could care less.
Israel is such a "terrorist" country who attacks innocent civilians with no provocation whatsoever. And I have a bridge to sell you.
Here's an acceptable compromise for everyone on the Israel vs Palestine question: wipe them all out. No more Israelis. No more Palestinians. No more problems.
Next!
If Israel wanted to they could've wiped the Palestinian problem off the face of the Earth with one button a long time ago. But they continue offering compromise after compromise and yet the Palestinians still have a problem signing on the dotted line Israel's only demand: to be granted the right to exist peacefully as a Jewish State.
That's stupid do you think that everyone there is a terroist?
get a life, if i would put your brain in a bird it will fly backword
There are Christians too in Israel, being squeezed out by both sides. Christians act as intermediaries.
Israel could improve relations with water de-salination plants, and not taking water used for crops for their swimming pools. Most hatred would end if every had fresh water. But this entire subject is off-topic: what are you doing to end slavery of girls and women?
Attack without provocation?... how about I kick you out of your land, put my house instead... then put you and your family in a concentration camp... for about 6 decades... and still there are people who criticize when you try to defend yourself... and God forbid, if you don't want to recognize the legitimacy of the people who kicked you out, you are called a terrorist State....
Ok Ok... I might be an idealist...
The misery of the Palestinians is misery infected by the Arab invader; they mingle with the Palestinians population and made what we call the terrarium of all time. This is why the Palestinians won the womb’s war. Remember Prophet Muhammad himself was homosexual. Opinion From Egypt
In Israel the women don't have to walk around in shame wearing the equivalent of a tent over their entire body. They are allowed to shake hands with their male friends without fear of decapitation.
jon, you are a hypocritical liar and loser. Muslim women were their modest clothing out of dignity, and they are very proud of it, just like Christian nuns do. Stop your childish, Islamophobic rants and get real. Better yet, crawl under whatever rock you just came from.
If a woman walks wearing pants in some parts of Israel specially on a saturday she gets stoned, long skirts, hair covered by a wig or scarf is ok.
Israel would not exists or give free benefits to jews if it would not be for my tax money.
moshal: you have no idea what "all muslim women" truly think about anything. Statements like yours reveal blatent insecurity. You obviously feel so threatened by the idea that there are some muslim women who do wear their clothing out of fear (which is 100% likely), your only recourse is to cling to absolute denial and lash out. You're a pathetic, baby-brained, emotionally-stunted little punk.
Moshal – "Better yet, crawl under whatever rock you just came from." Why are you bringing up Afghanistan and it's cave dwellers, I thought this argument was Israel vs Palestine? Yeah right on the Burkas and it's the woman's CHOICE to wear them – http://urlybits.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/barbie-burka.jpg
Nonsense.
Palestine? You mean JORDAN? yeah..
No one wants to listen to your empty claims of human rights abuses against the "Palestinians". They shoot rockets and mortars DELIBERATELY into Israel. They get what they deserve. I hope all their homes get bulldozed.
So they deserve no water for crops, and a wall so they can't harvest?
No, they shouldn't shoot rockets, but most of the world is tired of this entire conflict: we've heard of attrocities on both sides, and we are sick of it. But you haven't addressed what you would do to end slavery of women.
Would you allow women to pray any time of the month? Are you investigating diseases and conditions that affect mostly women? Are you treating sex trafficing as a crime? This is the subject being addressed here.
Pardon me, Sam, but can you please tell me when the "Nation" of Palestine was founded? Name one leader of the free state of Palestine from it's long history. Name one other country in the Middle East where Arabs have the same freedoms as Jews besides Israel. Name one other Middle Eastern country where Jews aren't persecuted.
Been around since 5BC. No country, tribes like all others in that area.
UAE fits the bill.
Iran doesn't prosecute their Jewish community.
Just because Israel claims it is a democracy does not mean it has any more right to exist than others. And Lebanon is probably the only true democracy in the region
Please tell me where Palestine is on a map I can't find it ???
Good for Israel, If you have a problem with it, hop on a plane and do something about it rather than your tired blah blah blahing from the hole you live in.
LONG LIVE ISRAEL!
Abandon thread!
I agree! Obviously nobody waving these flags cares about the rights of women at all, because that is what is supposed to be the topic.
you need to open your eyes mr. sam you dont no anything , university for sucide bombing its ok?
blowing your self in the middle of kids holiday party killing 19 kids 3-11 years old its ok.
i wonder what would you do if some one blow your kids up?
think before you make any comments.
I don't know how many people responding to this article and videos don't get it....this is about human trafficking, not about Israel and Palestine, homo versus hetero sexual, aids, or any other off the wall topic. I am a policeman and defiantly see that the abuse does deserve to be put at the feet of the "cod" or "johns" as we more typically call them in the U.S. After all, there would not be a sex slave/human trafficking problem if there were no men to purchase this commodity. I agree with some of the laws described above that punish the purchaser of this type of service. Furthermore, I have no doubt that if there were a "John" database much like the sex-offender database where people were publicly shamed and able to be cataloged the recidivism rate for both offenders and victims (the prostitutes) would go dramatically down.
James, I beg to differ the majority of prostitution in the U.S. is legal, take a cheezy video camera and record it post it on a remote website and it becomes "amateur porn". There are porn conventions all over, it is a multi-billion dollar a year industry. What is different between Porn and Prostitution the pay scale? No it's all about taxation! The government wants their share and they're b1thcing that they are not getting it.
As far as trafficking sex-workers the majority are volunteering for it for better pay than in their native land, not some under-ground basement where people are kept under armed guard – sounds like a bad movie to me not reality.
Consider grammar before getting a writing career, because you obviously have not heard of that term. Just some advice. Perhaps people will be more likely to care about what you have to say? Also if you had an organized idea, that may also help! Don't forget punctuation and capitalization!! 🙂
Plz don't involve other issues like Israel and Palestine battle in this matter.
I am from India and the situation remains the same here also. I think it is even more disgusting here for these prostitutes to survive.
Lack of health care and ignorant customer are a good receipe for HIV to flourish here.
Laethargic attitude and corruption makes police and NGOs a good souce for pimps to involve teenage girls into the business.
Until and unless harder rules are not implemented this trade is going to ruin moral values of out of the society.
There's no such thing as a palestinian, go peddle it to al-Jazeera
I would like to see a major news organization do a full report on the lies, myths and exaggerated numbers being told about sex trafficking slaves. The articles about the super bowl sex slaves, has been proved wrong many times, but news organizations still report about it.
Official Lies About Sex-Trafficking Exposed: It's now clear that anti-prostitution groups used fake data to deceive the media and lie to Congress. And it was all done to score free publicity and a wealth of public funding
Village Voice media in the March 24, 2011 issue have a great story on the lies and myths of sex tafficking:
Latest News
http://www.villagevoice.com/2011-03-23/news/women-s-funding-network-sex-trafficking-study-is-junk-science/
1. How did the super bowl child sex slaves rumor get started?
2. Who started it?
3. Why did the public and politicians believe it so easily, when it is not based on any facts?
I would like to see a full scale investigation into who started this and caused all this tax payer money being spent checking out this untrue rumor, and ruining the reputation of the the great sport of football because of a untrue rumor.
According to the media hype There was supposed to be hundreds of thousands of under age child sex slaves kidnapped and forced to have sex with super bowl fans. At the Dallas Super Bowl 2011.
WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL OF THEM?????
WHERE ARE THE THOUSANDS OF SUPER BOWL KIDNAPPED FORCED CHILD SEX SLAVES???????
Politicians, women's groups, police and child advocates were predicting that up to 100,000 hookers would be shipped into Dallas for the Super Bowl.
It was all a big lie told by Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott, government officials, and various anti-prostitution groups: Traffick911, Not for Sale, Change-org, Polaris Project, and the Dallas Women’s Foundation, which are anti-prostitution groups that tell lies in order to get grant money from the government and charities to pay their high salaries, and get huge amounts of money into their organizations. As proved in the links below:
Top FBI agent in Dallas (Robert Casey Jr.) sees no evidence of expected spike in child sex trafficking:
“Among those preparations was an initiative to prevent an expected rise in sex trafficking and child prostitution surrounding the Super Bowl. But Robert Casey Jr., special agent in charge of the FBI’s Dallas office, said he saw no evidence that the increase would happen, nor that it did.
“In my opinion, the Super Bowl does not create a spike in those crimes,” he said. “The discussion gets very vague and general. People mixed up child prostitution with the term human trafficking, which are different things, and then there is just plain old prostitution.”
http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/super-bowl/local/20110302-top-fbi-agent-in-dallas-praises-super-bowl-security-effort-sees-no-evidence-of-expected-spike-in-child-sex-trafficking.ece
This myth of thousands or millions of underage sex slaves tries to make every sports fan a sex criminal. No matter what the sport is, or in what country it is in.
Brian McCarthy isn't happy. He's a spokesman for the NFL. Every year he's forced to hear why his customers are adulterers and child molesters. Brian McCarthy says the sport/super bowl sex slave story is a urban legend, with no truth at all.
These anti-prostitution groups lobby the government in a big way, getting Politicians to truly believe their lies.
In recent years, every time there has been a major international sporting event, a group of government officials, campaigning feminists, pliant journalists and NGOs have claimed that the movement of thousands of men to strange foreign countries where there will be lots of alcohol and horniness will result in the enslavement of underage sex slaves for the purposes of sexual pleasure. Obviously. And every time they have simply doubled the made-up scare figures from the last international sporting event, to make it look like this problem of sport/sex/slavery gets worse year on year. Yet each year it is proved false.
This myth of thousands or millions of underage sex slaves tries to make every sports fan a sex criminal. No matter what the sport is, or in what country it is in.
Brian McCarthy isn't happy. He's a spokesman for the NFL. Every year he's forced to hear why his customers are adulterers and child molesters. Brian McCarthy says the sport/super bowl sex slave story is a urban legend, with no truth at all.
I do not like the idea of people getting the wrong information and believing lies, no matter what the topic is. The Sex trafficking, slavery issue is one of the biggest lies being told today. It is amazing to me how people will believe such lies so easily. The media is to blame for this. I wonder why they feel such a need to report wrong stats, numbers and information about this topic without doing proper research.
While this may happen in very rare limited situations, the media will say that millions of people are sex slaves without doing any real research on the topic. Only taking the word of special interest anti-prostitution groups which need to generate money in the form of huge government grants from taxpayers, and charities. These "non profit" group's employees make huge salaries, therefore they need to lobby the government, and inflate and invent victims in order to get more money into their organizations. If you look into how many real kidnapped forced against their will sex slaves there are, and not just take the anti-prostitution groups word for it. You will be very surprised.
Where are all the forced sex slaves? I would like to meet the millions of slaves and see for myself if they were kidnapped and forced against their will.
These groups lobby the government in a big way, getting Politicians to truly believe their lies.
This is an attempt to over inflate an issue in order to get more government money to these organizations. As a tax payer, voter, and resident I don’t want the government to mislead me.
Sex Trafficking in Sports Events links:
http://sextraffickingtruths.blogspot.com/
http://bebopper76.wordpress.com/2010/11/09/sex-trafficking-lies-myths/
Dallas TV News show about super bowl sex slave myth:
http://www.wfaa.com/sports/football/super-bowl/Super-Bowl-prostitution-prediction-has-no-proof–114983179.html
http://www.dallasobserver.com/2011-01-27/news/the-super-bowl-prostitute-myth-100-000-hookers-won-t-be-showing-up-in-dallas/
http://www.dallasobserver.com/2011-03-03/news/super-bowl-prostitution-100-000-hookers-didn-t-show-but-america-s-latest-political-scam-did/
http://www.dallasobserver.com/2011-03-03/news/sex-traffick911-press-release/
There is a lot of controversy over the numbers of adult woman who are forced sex slaves. The real factual answer is that no one knows. There is hard evidence that the sex slavery/sex trafficking issue continues to report false information and is greatly exaggerated by politicians, the media, and aid groups, feminist and religious organizations that receive funds from the government, The estimate of adult women who become new sex slaves ranges anywhere from 40 million a year to 5,000 per year all of which appear to be much too high. They have no evidence to back up these numbers, and no one questions them about it. Their sources have no sources, and are made up numbers. In fact if some of these numbers are to believed which have either not changed or have been increased each year for the past twenty years, all woman on earth would currently be sex slaves. Yet, very few real forced against their will sex slaves have been found.
It is not easy for criminals to engage in this activity:
Sex trafficking is illegal and the penalties are very severe. It is very difficult to force someone to be a sex slave, they would have to have 24 hour guards posted and be watched 365 days a year, 24 hours per day. Have the threat of violence if they refused, and have no one notice and complain to the authorities or police. They would need to hide from the general public yet still manage to see customers from the general public and not have the customers turn the traffickers in to the police. They would need to provide them with medical care, food, shelter, and have all their basic needs met. They would need to have the sex slaves put on a fake front that they enjoyed what they were doing, act flirtatious and do their job well. They would have to deal with the authorities looking for the missing women, and hide any money they may make, since it comes from illegal activity. They must do all of this while constantly trying to prevent the sex slaves from escaping and reporting them to the police. They would need to prevent the general public from reporting them into the police.
This is extremely difficult to do, which makes this activity rare. These criminals would be breaking dozens of major laws not just one. Kidnapping itself is a serious crime. There are many laws against sex trafficking, sex slavery, kidnapping, sex abuse, rape, sexual harassment etc. If someone is behind it, they will be breaking many serious laws, be in big trouble, and will go to jail for many long years. While there are some women who may be true victims. And it is possible for this to happen in rare situations. This is a small rare group of people and that the numbers and scale of this crime is exaggerated. The very nature of someone pulling off a kidnapping and forced sex for profit appears to be very difficult. Since it would be difficult this makes this crime rare. Not impossible, but extremely rare. And do you really think that millions of people are lining up to make a career out of being a illegal violent sex slave kidnapping pimp?
A key point is that on the sidelines the adult prostitutes themselves are not being listened to. They oppose laws against prostitution. But no one wants to listen to the prostitutes themselves. Only to the self appointed experts that make up numbers and stories many of which have never met a real forced sex slave or if they did it was only a few. The media and government never ask the prostitutes themselves what would help them in terms of laws.
Many women in the sex business are independent workers. They don’t have a pimp.
They work for themselves, advertise themselves, and keep all the money for themselves. No one forces them, because there isn’t anyone to force them. They go out and find their own customers, set their own prices, and arrange everything by themselves. Sometimes they may employ others to help them, but these are not pimps. If for example, she hires an Internet web design company to make a website for her, does that make the web design company a pimp? If she pays a phone company for a phone to do business, does this make the phone company a pimp? If she puts an ad in the paper, does this make the editor a pimp? If she puts the money she makes into a bank account does this make the bank a pimp?
A lot of anti prostitution groups would say yes. Everyone and everybody is a pimp.
These groups make up lies, and false statistics that no one bothers to check. A big reason they do this is because it provides high paying jobs for them. They get big donations, and grants from the government, charity, churches, etc. to have these groups, and pay these high salaries of the anti prostitution workers.
== World Cup 2006 ==
Politicians, religious and aid groups, still repeat the media story that 40,000 prostitutes were trafficked into Germany for the 2006 world cup – long after leaked police documents revealed there was no truth at all in the tale. A baseless claim of 25,000 trafficking victims is still being quoted, recently, for example, by the Salvation Army in written evidence to the home affairs select committee, in which they added: "Other studies done by media have suggested much higher numbers.” Which has been proven by the German police to be completely false. Yet people still talk about these false numbers as if it were fact.
==World Cup 2010 ==
Again using the made up number of 40,000 prostitutes trafficked:
The behavior of fans in South Africa has run contrary to what was predicted prior to the start of the tournament after David Bayever told World Cup organizers in March it was feared that up to 40,000 extra prostitutes could converge in the host nation to meet the expected demand. Bayever, deputy chairperson of South Africa's Central Drug Authority (CDA) that advises on drug abuse but also works with prostitutes, warned: "Forty-thousand new prostitutes. As if we do not have enough people of our own, we have to import them to ensure our visitors are entertained."
But the tournament in 2010, if anything, has seen the modern-day soccer fan attracted to art galleries and museums over brothels. A trend that has seen a drop in revenue across the board for the prostitution industry, which is illegal in South Africa. "Zobwa," the chairperson of Sisonke - an action group representing around 70 street prostitutes in Johannesburg - said business had been down over the last month. "The World Cup has been devastating. We thought it was going to be a cash cow but it's chased a lot of the business away. It's been the worst month in my company's history," the owner and founder of one of Johannesburg's most exclusive escort companies told CNN.
===The Vancouver Olympics 2010=======
Again anti-prostitution groups lied and used the same figure of 40,000 or more sex slaves for the Vancouver Olympics. Again they were proved wrong. There were no sex slaves at the Vancouver 2010 Olympics.
Washington post article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/22/AR2007092201401.html
News night BBC video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtaEdI3aiwg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rvA60zdkD8
Guardian newspaper:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/oct/20/government-trafficking-enquiry-fails
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/oct/20/trafficking-numbers-women-exaggerated
Nick Davies – About Truth in the Media:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8YGmASiZZ8&feature=related
thanks for keeping it short.
this article sends a clear message: keep your pimp hand strong!
You're an imbecile. Good luck with that.
Thank you for a little truth amid all the hysteria. Prostitution is an acceptable alternative to many of these women. Those who are actually forced or trafficked make up a tiny minority of actual prostitutes.
Sounds to me like you're trying to justify dallying with prostitutes. There are a host of reasond to make prostitution illegal, aside form trafficking. The mere spreading of disease by prostitutes is reason enough, much less the number of families that are ruined because Joe Blow wants a little extra-curricular without putting in the effort.
What you just did was hijack an important story to make a long-winded point I will need to set time aside to read further, if at all. Did the superbowl suffer and die somehow? No. It will be back next year. In the meantime, there is a real problem with human trafficking out there and this article highlighted both the problems and some of the means to deal with it. It's not made up, exaggerated or a profit generator for the groups trying to end this blight on humanity. This article doesn't even touch on the United States, doesn't mention football or ANY SPORT AT ALL! So, focus, man. Extend yourself out of your little box, get out of the past. Grab hold of the present and read what's in front of you.
If you have an ounce of empathy in you, please direct your talent for verbosity toward the ending of sex slavery.
The 'sexual slave' simply needs to be able to call the police without fear. The reason they don't is because prostitution is illegal.
The issues of are mixed because those with morality issues over the subject don't want to admit it. Up here in Canada, we had a guy who was EATING the girls. Cannibalism is not as offensive to some as the moral outrage of prostitution.
You have not seen one sentence out of me regarding the morality of prostitution. I have been facing this accusation all up and down this forum. What's the issue? Is this a fall-back argument: we're-the-freedom-fighters-facing-down-the-politically-correct-boogeymen?
My post here was about this guy running off in some digressive superbowl nonsense that is waay off topic to the subject of slavery in Denmark and Sweden.
And speaking of off-topic, so are you. This story isn't about cannibalism–which, OF COURSE, is both tragic and criminal–so very few people would have commented about it, or drawn any kind of comparison between it and prostitution. I am also from Canada and have seen no argument here that says it is less deplorable than prostitution. That's all in your head.
This article is not about American football, but about how Sweden handles sex trafficking, compared with Denmark. It is also about where these women come from. It implies how desperate these women are, and that often the women themselves are traffickers. But now that you mention Football:
Obviously, you are one of those people who have had too many brain traumas to understand that, of the very few articles about the tragedies facing women, there are all kinds of hijackers: flag-waving hijackers, football hijackers. You seem to be proving, not disproving, that football has something to do with prostitution. At least football does have to do with a general demeaning attitude towards women; you complain, are you some kind of damsel in distress?
Get a degree in social work, start a foundation whose mission is to help call girls, sit in a big office all day, make up rumors, collect donations from patrons, government, and politicians. Use money and contacts to start biggest prostitution ring Dallas has ever seen. Retire after the next Super Bowl. Good plan Football Fan.
Slavery is not prostitution you cunt. Doenst matter anyway . The problem comes from income disparity. Europe is going to collapse wand then te USA due to debt and high interest rates.
Hahaha, try enforcing it outside of police state USA you CUNT.
Fuck America hail china.
Yeah, thanks for being THAT guy...
FUCK U YOU CHING CHONG BITCH !
Hahahaha you are gonna love israel and china...
I hate how these morons are attacking prostitution qnd disguising it as slavery. Put the foreigners in jail. That's the solution. No passport? Prison.
Or have it in certain zones. Sweden isn't the automatic solution. Fuck Sweden, bunch of feminist fags.
Dumb china man, shut up and make make shit for the USA!((:
Stupid CUNTT since u like tht word!
I agree, and I am from Sweden.
This article totally ignores the fact that the working conditions for prostitutes have become more dangerous in Sweden since the introduction of this law (whereby it is legal to sell but not to buy). It also ignores the fact that scarce police resources have been redirected from combatting normal crime to go after the average and otherwise law-abiding Joe looking for $ex. It also ignores the fact that organized crime has been lured to Sweden to take part of underground profits (just as what happened in the U.S. when alcohol was outlawed during the prohibition period.)
Furthermore, this article also ignores the fact that there are definitely independent prostitutes who want to work as such. (Several have loudly complained and with good aguments tried to get their points across in Swedish media.) I also sends the message that adult women do not have the mental capabilities to themselves decide and take responsibility for what they do with their own bodies.
As if this wasn't enough, Swedish rape statistics have sky-rocketed since the introduction of this law. On a global scale, there is a correlation between the security and safety of women and society's acceptance of prostitution. A normal, non-prostitute, woman walking at night in a short skirt on a street in a prostitution-liberal city like Copenhagen in Denmark, Amsterdam in the Netherlands, Bangkok in Thailand, or Tokyo in Japan is safer than if she does the same thing in Stockholm in Sweden.
Prostitution exists for a reason. $ex is natural. $ex is a need. $ex is healthy for people's mental state. If some people voluntarily choose to spend large amounts of money to buy $ex from other adults, we should not moralize about it. What happened to personal responsibility?
Several leading experts on prostitution in Sweden reject this law. Recently, when the law was supposed to be evaluated, by order of the justice minister, the evaluation was lead and directed by a person who had aldready decided what the outcome was going to be. No proper evaluation was conducted, and contrary to the official conclusions, the facts pointed in another direction. It was heavily critized, but nothing was done to correct it.
This Swedish law making purchasing of $exual services illegal is highly controversial, yet "politically correct", and most people who are against it keep quiet. Even so, the law has met massive criticism. It is an ideologically motivated law suggested, implemented, and supported by feminist groups. This article is not balanced, and by excluding important and relevant facts, it paints a false picture of reality.
I first encountered the Sweden approach almost twenty years ago. I was impressed then, and remain so. I have not seen any decently documented stats that would support your arguments here. If you have them, you should produce them.
I'm afraid that the tone of your article is that of a frustrated buyer, rather than an objective reporter. Also, your argument includes that age-old slaver society lament: We need the slaves so that our own women will not be harmed. You are saying that it's much preferable to enslave other nations daughters and sisters so that you won't resort to raping your own. If you'd ever had me, you'd have lost me right there.
Yes, $ex is healthy and natural when LOVE and emotions of one-ness are involved, not cheap bought booty.....that was the most RIDICULOUS post I HAVE EVER READ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The women will hate Lars' post and think it's anti-women. The men will see it as pragmatic. Why shouldn't two consenting adults be allowed to have sex as part of a monetary transaction? The problem isn't buying sex or selling sex. The problem is pimping others in an exploitative way. It's called "the world's oldest profession" for a reason, it will be with us forever, so we might as well find a way to accommodate it in a manner that protects the people involved and society as a whole. Laws don't eliminate vices, they just drive them underground where they become more dangerous. Sweden and Denmark tried very different approaches, and both have had unintended consequences. Many countries can learn from their experiences and try to move closer to the solution that works.
Sweden is a success story that I have not seen disproven as of yet, despite my invitation to Lars to provide facts rather than opinion. If all you have to sum up the arguments against Lars' post is to say that "women find it anti-women," then you are merely using a downright trite crutch of men vs. women and failing to address what is ACTUALLY being said.
This article is about laws that are effective or ineffective against the sex slave trade. Lars said things he hasn't backed up yet about how the law was passed and bad things are in Sweden with some sort of prohibition-style prostitution underground and then proposed that if Sweden would just let trafficked women be sold for sex, swedes wouldn't have to rape their own.
I don't think Lars is anti-women, I think he's a sociopath. I think he's the modern day equivalent of slave owners down through the centuries who spread this same nonsense. I think the first time I read about it was while Athens was debating citizenship in the first democracy.
Before jumping to conclusions about Lars, why not actually think critically about the whole situation. You have these countries, that have a border more open then the US/Canada border, with one country having a strict law against something and another having it completely legal. The law against prostitution is recorded as being highly successful while only looking at one aspect of prostitution. How safe are the prostitutes? How does this impact other crime? How does it influence society? Economy? Is it successful only because there is a nearby border they can cross easily to obtain what they want? I'll bet anyone thousands of dollars that if Denmark tries the same thing it will 1) be less successful, and 2) Sweden's "success" will quickly deteriorate.
Women are over half the population of the world. Perpetrators of sex crimes make excuses; they say that whatever they want to do is natural, healthy, or should be promoted, even if they are raping children. I'm glad that Sweden has this law; there is no indication that it has caused any problems.
Kyle:
Before Sweden tried this, critics said it wouldn't work. Then it did. Now critics are saying it only works because the neighbours provide an outlet and wouldn't work if they did not. There's only one way to find that out, and that's enact a mirror set of laws. Otherwise, this is just another opinion.
The rest of your argument assumes a far more influential prostitution market than I have ever seen described except in the worst of the third world sex tourism plagued nations. If there was rampant poverty in Sweden, an infrastructure in disrepair and government prone to corruption I'd be far more inclined to consider this point.
Also, the article does touch on some aspects of safety and abuse of women in the industry. It paints a poor picture of treatment in both countries. In Sweden, there are fewer of them to get harmed. This one law isn't fixing the whole problem, of course. If Sweden relies solely on it, or believes that off the streets means gone completely, then they will lose in the long run. But they can show that there is success in the area of sex slave trafficking, and they are nearly unique in that. Argue with that success all you want, it's still there and still provable in actual figures.
@Tristis, I don't know why you discredit yourself by resorting to name-calling ("sociopath", "slave owner", "frustrated buyer") instead of participating in a an honest debate. I don't think you really believe I am any of the things you say I am. (I am not. I even asked my wife, she just laughed.)
Then you just pile on with one ridiculous statement after another. I have not discussed "trafficked women" at all. I wish nothing more than ending trafficking. While prostitution is a large reason for trafficking, trafficking is a small part of prostitution. The great majority of prostitutes have not been trafficked. I also want you to understand that street prostitution in Sweden constitute a tiny amount of all prostitution in Sweden. If all those resources that are currently used for going after buyers of sexual services instead were used to combat trafficking, that would be great.
Do you actually know any prostitutes? I didn't think so. I do, however, and to disappoint your preconcieved notions, not as a buyer. You asked for "decently documented stats that would support [my] arguments". Are you sure you want me to list a bunch of sources in Swedish? I didn't think so. If you provide me with an email address, and write to me in Swedish, I would be happy to give you a list of sources. Now, was there anything intelligent you wanted to contribute with?
Poor Lars. It's so hard to get laid in Sweden these days unless you have a spouse, a domestic parter, a signficant other, an open relationship, or a f*** buddy. Why should guys have to invest one ounce of their time in something resembling a relationship in order to get sex? Can't an average Swedish guy enjoy his random 3rd world women without the police bothering him about it?
How can you people not appreciate what Sweden is doing? Respect their law, they didn't ask you to implement this law to your country, they are writing this to tell the world they are doing something to address the problem. Most people here only CRITICIZE AND CRITICIZE...Look at yourself, are you doing something to protect the victims? If not then, SHUT UP. You are more on...provide proof, provide evidence, this is crap, this is biased...goodness, what an upbringing you get from your parents that you can't even appreciate something like this. Most are critical, I wonder what your life is like...maybe people around you criticize you because nothing good comes from you except criticism. This article tells about what Sweden has found out, they maybe getting more facts to strengthen more this law. This is just a summary, goodness, it's better to build children than repair adults, you people who are critical, look at yourself if y
How can you people not appreciate what Sweden is doing? Respect their law, they didn't ask you to implement this law to your country, they are writing this to tell the world they are doing something to address the problem. Most people here only CRITICIZE AND CRITICIZE...Look at yourself, are you doing something to protect the victims? If not then, SHUT UP. You are more on...provide proof, provide evidence, this is crap, this is biased...goodness, what an upbringing you get from your parents that you can't even appreciate something like this. Most are critical, I wonder what your life is like...maybe people around you criticize you because nothing good comes from you except criticism. This article tells about what Sweden has found out, they maybe getting more facts to strengthen more this law. This is just a summary, goodness, it's better to build children than repair adults, you people who are critical, look at yourself if you have done something to address the kind of problem mentioned in this article. YOU'RE DOING NOTHING BUT CRITICIZE, GROW UP! If you want endless sex, get married, period. If something went wrong in your sex life, then it's your problem, not the society.
@Blizz Dawn, the problem is that these aren't "the facts". The evaluation referred to in this article by Beatrice Ask was a job ordered by Ask where the questions to be asked and its answers were determined beforehand. This article paints quite a different picture than the one sanctioned by the Swedish Justice Ministry under Beatrice Ask:
http://www.thelocal.se/27962/20100723/
Here are articles in Swedish (maybe use Google translation services?), starting with an article about how the criticism against the law was ignored, written by a Ph.D. and professor.
http://www.newsmill.se/artikel/2010/09/13/skarhed-och-ask-m-ste-ta-till-sig-kritiken-mot-utv-rderingen-av-sexk-pslagen
Here is another article by a prostitution researcher who says that the evaluation of the law against the purhcase of sexual sevices is a scandal:
http://www.newsmill.se/artikel/2010/07/21/prostitutionsforskare-utv-rderingen-av-sexk-pslagen-r-en-vetenskaplig-skandal
Here is an article in Sweden's leading conservative newspaper, by a member of parliament, explaining how the law against the purhcase of sexual sevices is a failure:
http://www.svd.se/opinion/brannpunkt/sexkopslagen-ar-en-flopp_802973.svd
The list goes on and on, and I could have added references to Ph.D. dissertations on the subject matter, but it feels rather pointless to publish a list of resources in Swedish on an English language newsite. Therefore, let me round up with an article in English about a Swedish woman of the radical feminist movement, who started to look into the issue of prostitution. Not even she believes that the Swedish law against the purhcase of sexual sevices turned out well:
http://www.lunduniversity.lu.se/o.o.i.s?id=24890&news_item=4626
"From a Swedish legal point of view, any woman selling sex has been forced to do so, either by circumstance or coercion"
This is the most asinine logic ever. You dont see men out there selling themselves. If theres a demand then theres a seller....
Actually, men do sell themselves, but you never hear about it.
That's because men usually aren't the ones who wind up as single moms. (that's just one of the circumstances)
Sweden is the feminist paradise, where men are guilty until proven innocent(and even then they must be guilty of something) and women cannot be permitted to have any responsibility over their own actions. Just look at what's happening to Julian Assange.
@Josh...you don't see many young girls growing up with the dream of becoming a prostitue. What the quote is saying is that women do it because of they feel they need the money and have no other choice or they are made to do it because of slavery. The reality is many of these women don't get the money they are "working" for. The majority of it goes to the pimps or the ones in charge. It is sad that women/men make the choice to prostitute because they feel it is the best way to make a lot of money. It's sickning when women and children are being forced in to sex slavery.
YOu don't see young girls growing up dreaming of working at McDonalds either.
I had a job at McDonalds when I my niece and nephew were both young. They thought I had the coolest job in the world.
BTW there is no comparison between McDonalds and prostitution. Hard work and low wages, true, but service industry jobs don't make you loathe yourself (your boss, maybe). You don't age rapidly and die before your time. You don't contract diseases. Except in the same random way of any ordinary job, nobody stabs you or beats you or spits on you. You get to take home the wages you earn, rather than hand it all over to a pimp.
Wow Tristis, I don't know what McDonald's you worked at, but people get stabbed or shot at fast food places all the time. But on the main point, the issue is not the prostitution, the issue is the pimps; Copenhagen's problem is that they are not enforcing the laws they created prohibiting pimps. Take a look at legalized prostitution in Reno, Nevada and you find that the girls are paid well and seem to be fairly happy; the difference is that in Reno you can't just go out on the streets, you have to work in a brothel instead. When pimps are taken out of the equation, the women and men that earn a living in prostitution keep most of the money they earn and they don't get beaten, stabbed or shot; not only that but it is safer for the customers as well, since condoms are used every time and prostitutes must be regularly tested for STDs, not to mention you don't need to worry about getting beaten, robbed or killed themselves. Bottom line though, can you name something that is legal to give away for free that is illegal when you pay for it?
Actually, you DO see men (and boys) being prostituted, but APPARENTLY that isn't a problem and they aren't "slaves" in the way that women are. At least the article, and the sexist women defending it, don't mention them at all.
Beyond that, I'm wondering about this default victim status that women get in Sweden . . . is this presumption applied to their adult film stars as well? Are those women "forced" into their work? Or are they rock stars, of a sort?
As another question, does the fact that this law will no doubt have a massively disproportional impact on one gender versus the other strike no one else as somehow fundamentally skewed? I'm just saying that I don't see the odds of many women being busted for purchasing these services as being all that good. So, clearly MEN are the ones targeted by this law. I bring this up simply because I read a comment above somewhere by a woman who stated that it was more or less nonsense to give any consideration to the sexual needs of men. Coming from a woman, it struck me a woefully uninformed (if not simply sexist). The point being, IMO, criminalizing only one side of the equation is unfair and unjust. Despite the flaws in the previous system, which all seem to have stemmed from poor enforcement of the nationality requirement, I think that system was more "equal."
While not covered in this particular article, the laws in Sweden do protect men and boys who sell sex. And some articles cover them. The problem in writing about that is that the numbers are so disproportionate. I don't have the figures, so I won't quote any here, but 50/50 coverage of this gender-wise would seriously understate the situation for women.
Did you notice that, right after you claimed the plight of men and boys was ignored you went on to say this:
"I'm just saying that I don't see the odds of many women being busted for purchasing these services as being all that good. So, clearly MEN are the ones targeted by this law."
It's men (mostly) who buy the services of male prostitutes and therefore the same protection is afforded them by charging johns. If women were (and for all the women who are) buying sex, they should face the exact same law.
4the1.org kicks off tomorrow. Help end slavery. Buy Free Trade.
So, can I hit on a woman all night at the bar buying her drinks, spend the next week buying meals, gifts, and entertainment.... All with the clear intent that I'm trying to get into her pants? Because thats what happens, legally, all over the world every day. Slavery is, of course, bad. Two consenting adults in a mutually beneficial arrangement is a completely different issue.
Exaaaaactly. I am a woman, and have a couple friends that don't walk the street – but might as well. Actively preying upon a man or woman for money, clothes, food, etc. in exchange for pleasure is a form of prostitution. What is the difference? Slavery is alive and well, and NO ONE should be forced into selling their body BUT some women actually choose to sell themselves.
Lol, you're cute. These women aren't speed dating. They're hookers. I don't know how many women from Africa are moving to Europe for a life of continuous wining and dining by eligible men.
Prostitute: thanks for this 4-star dinner, champagne, flowers, and chocolates, but I don't think we'll be having sex tonight.
Customer: I understand, it's your choice even though I already spent all this money. And don't worry, I won't complain to your pimp.
Newsflash Teeph: This conversation is NEVER going to occur. In the real world, a prostitute doesn't get to change her mind, esp. not after the money has changed hands. If she does that the best she can hope for is that her pimp won't beat her. I'll give you a C for effort though.
@Maire, of course a prostitute gets to change her mind after the money has changed hands! She can change her mind at any point according to Swedish rape legislation that applies to ALL women, prostitute or not. Having sex against someone's will constitues rape. The money can be returned.
It is typical for ardent prostitution prohibitionist so somehow think that the law cease to exist just because someone is a prostitute, or to think an average John would have any less decency than any other man. The biggest harm to prostitutes is exactly the kind of dehumanizing ideas about prostitution that you display, which leads to what is called "the whore stigma".
Yes, a small segment of prostitutes live horrible lives, but that isn't because of prostitution per se, but because they are poor, or because other laws are being broken. Slavery, trafficking, sex with minors, rape – all those are serious crime, so let's not apply the very real notion of the terrible situation of a tiny fraction of prostitutes that are being victimized by criminals to the majority of prostitutes who are adults who can make their own decsions about what to do with their bodies. Don't take my word for it, ask the prostitutes themselves (the few who will speak).
CNN never mentions the 20000 kidnapped sex slaves in Israel. I guess since the holocaust criticizing Jews is not allowed, i suppose I'm an anti-Semite for even mentioning these atrocities.
The only reason you're the only one mentioning these 20000 sex slaves in Israel is because you just made them up.
LOL Thomas. We got some real Israeli haters in here today, don't we.
TEL AVIV – The Parliamentary Inquiry Committee has found that between 3,000 and 10,000 women are smuggled into Israel each year to be sold and trafficked as sex slaves. Each woman is sold at public auction for between 8 and 10 thousand USD and about 10,000 women are currently being held in Israel’s 3 to 4 hundred brothels.
What a crock! Did you dream that while you were drunk, or just make it up on the spot? Really, the world is bad enough off without people like you making up hate lies.
Are they all slaves of Israeli's or are they being held by some of the arabs who live in Israel? Or a bit of both?
Your talking rubbish! Stop making up crap! Your talking out of your other orifce!
" From a Swedish legal point of view, any woman selling sex has been forced to do so, either by circumstance or coercion. "
Any man buying sex is forced to do so, either by the woman in his life withholding sex, or by nature.
You're retarded.
Why??? On the contrary, he has a very strong argument...Non-puritan societies have long known men occasionaly need the proverbial pressure relief valve, hence brothels (nowadays clubs) were tacitly tolerated. Evn in the US, till the neopuritan wave took root again..
There are alternatives; there is never a reason to use women in this way, nor is it healthy and natural to "use" people for sex. People forget that what is healthy and natural and moral is to respect other people, learn to care about them, help them, form healthy long-term relationships with them, or else, treat them as acquaintances but with respect. If you don't have a long-term picture, you are destroying civilization, because it seems that only women realize that sex means children, and children means educating them, etc. Take the long-time view, and you have a healthy society, otherwise, you have the point of view of a may-fly: get it over with quick and disrespect your partner. That is not healthy.
Elizabeth, how old are you? Do you still live with your parents? When two capable adults get together for any convened purpose, they are in effect using each other, thus it is when they get together to satisfy their sexual desires, or when one does so and the other expects to turn a profit. I once met an ex-sex worker who said that she could never in her dreams have expected to make as much money otherwise as she did plying the trade, and that she chose her customers based on her own criteria. She also owned a pub and two apartments. When I asked her if in retrospect she would have accepted for somebody to help her off the streets and get her on an aid program, she looked at me like I was a three-eyed monster and laughed.
100% true
People, they are programming you with crap articles like this. They are attempting to control you behavior. Sex is nothing more than a biological act that is extremely enjoyable. If someone wants to use that fact to make a lot of money, which many, many ladies of the night do, more power to them. The article speaks of the worst part of prostitution, which is not the act itself but rather the kidnapping and being forced into it aspect. This is not the norm. Most prostitutes simply don't pay all that love, marriage, sex is evil, moralistic OPINION type crap much mind. They see the world as it really is, not like those that think they have the right to guide other peoples behavior because their beliefs deem something wrong. So trump up the smuggling crap, which is a result of prostitution not being legal or regulated, but not prostitution in itself. Prositution exists, is not evil in itself, and will be a part of the human condition forever. Just like marijuana!
Seems a bit of a bogus law, to automatically give any woman who sells sex that kind of power, I mean life is full of choices, if a woman gets addicting to drugs and then in her desire for more drugs sells his body, should a man have to go to jail for rape for that?
Personally, seems harsh, now granted the guy is probably at least somewhat of a scumbag, but still.
The man doesn't go to jail for the prostitutes back story. The man goes to jail for illegally purchasing sex. Spinning victimization into his arrest/prosecution does nothing but muddy the waters.
Now, I think what you might be driving at is that you think she should ALSO be arrested. But that would either mean you did not read the article, or you have a problem with retention. When it is criminal, trafficked women_will_not_make it out of the trap and the slavers and pimps will succeed. When she is_not_faced with arrest and jail time, she is more likely to_co-operate_ and that makes it easier to get to whatever owner still thinks there's enough of a market (what with all the arrested johns avoiding the matter) to drag her in to service.
Get it?
The law is pretty lenient nobody has gone to jail, you get fined but there is a shame effect which seems to work. So the "cod" will not get charged with rape. Btw, there was a judge who got caught as well.
Yes, that's right. I got carried away with my response there. They made this a matter of cost rather than jail, they made it financially and socially prohibitive. That's actually one of the best parts of this and the related laws. Make the business unprofitable rather than overload jails with either men or women.
Well said!
U Kno what ! China sucks ! Hail THE U.S.A. MOTHER FUCKIN CHINA MEN
Clearly you're an inbred redneck American. I came to this conclusion by just looking at your name. You're also clearly just a racist cunt as well. It's fucks like you that need to be shot in the head and burried in a field.
no. this is a troll. improv spam. ignore it.
Considering that most prostitutes are forced into the trade, I see no reason why men caught patronizing them should be allowed to keep their genitals. Their perverted sexual appetites are ruining countless lives because they are unable to keep a willing participant around. They will have no such desires once their testicles are removed.
My my, what a hate-filled angry little lesbian you are!!
And you got your numbers from... where? I'm sure you have facts to back up your claim of "most sex workers were forced into it"?
Once you produce that, perhaps you can look up the word "tyranny" and how it relates to a government telling two consenting adults they do not have the right to control their own bodies.
By the same logic you would then agree with genital mutilation for prostitutes! Sort of like the kind still practiced in some African societies, eh??? I suggest you walk outside and drain some of the feces out of your brain cavity...
The idea that "most prostitutes are forced into the trade" is total garbage. Some are, and that is a terrible crime. Most are not – they make a choice to pursue a career that works for them. A bad all-female rap group (I forget the name) had a song with the lyrics "if she wants to sell it on the street on sundays – its none of your business!" Truer words were never spoken.
Salt N Pepper.
....if I wanna take a guy, home w/ me tonite..... tis none of yo' biznezzzz.
Now who do you think you are? puttin' yo' cheap 2 cents in.... etc. etc.
Obvioulsy this person has no experience with men, or life for that matter. You actually believe most men going to prostitutes are happily married men that can "get it anywhere". Their are men out their who have no other choice than to frequent prostitutes or live a life of depression (yes men get depressed if their sexual urges are never met over the long term). Its the same as a women who has never been held, or cuddled or cared for. You must be a very angy woman who was burned, and stupid for that matter.
Statistical proof in many psychological studies: alot of men ( but not most ) develop psychotic tendencies when deprived of sex over a long period time. Fk or fight, tis in our genes.
You raise about how sex is a need for men (probably also for women).
I also want to make note of something which is often ignored- that touch is a major part of sex, and may be the man's only source of touch. Most men never touch another human being except with their wife/ girlfriend/ partner. In many societies, men cannot touch children, while women touch children all the time and are regularly holding children. Also, men cannot touch each other for fear of feeling or being seen as "gay". For women, touching other adult women is far more accepted.
Men basically get little touch in their lives unless they are married or in a relationship- and that person is their only source usually.
I would say, in some cases that "sex" is actually a code word for touch, or a certain kind of special attention. I have met sex workers who told me that some customers don't have sex with them, but just have massage.
I agree w/ u girl about the whole people's need of sex causes bad this and that......
however, please explain to me how we as a species are supposed to deal with
this little thing called human nature. Liberals just don't seem to understand human
nature and how it works. You can't get around it. The whole sex thing ain't ever
going away. It is a need in most adult human animals, like eating, sleeping, or peeing.
Men NEED $ex. period. They will do whatever it takes to get it. They will lie to get it. They will pay to get it. They will even take matters into their own hand to get it. period. BTW conservatives...I am a total liberal and this is NOT a liberal vs Conservatives issue...it is a women vs men issue. When it comes to $ex both liberal and conservative men needed.
REALLY?
I have a friend that ran an escort service for several years. It's a fairly exclusive club per region and he knew most of the other "pimps" running local businesses. He even worked as a male escort for other "pimps" and for his own business.
Out of the dozens of girls I met the acquaintance of (and no I have not EVER paid for sex, or forced a woman into sex) not a single one of them were in any way forced or coerced into the trade. Every single one of them chose this profession for the money.
I also had a roommate that was a stripper, I used to party with her and her friends all the time. Yes, that is right, party with them. None of them were rounded up and forced into one room cages after the club closed, they all went out, bought drugs and partied till dawn.
I absolutely think it is beyond ridiculous the claims made about this trade when anyone who even bothered meeting the acquaintance of these ladies (without being on the other side of a table that gives away money and support to women who tell completely untrue sob stories) would know that they are patently false.
The only reason we have a problem with prostitution is because of popular religions based on the idea of "sin" and also militant feminism, which has quite often defined ALL sexual activity between men and women as rape.
Women own their own bodies, minds and spirits and not one single person has the right to tell them what they can and cannot do with them, for whatever reason or compensation they choose.
The whole prostitution thing is a Trojan horse, just like the laws against suicide that are based on he idea that the government (state) owns you and knows better then you how to use your only resource that you own 100%, which is your own body.
When my wife was a stripper (she a college professor now), the strippers called themselves 'hustlers' and when they were makin' good money hustlin', they called it 'bankin'!
I love those girls! Shake 'em down for everything they got ladies!
This article draws no distinction between prostitution and sex trafficking. Take a look at Holland, prostitution is legal, and while I'm sure trafficking still exists there, most of the prostitutes are there of their own accord. They make good money and can choose themselves whether or not they sell sex to a prospective customer.
From a man's perspective: There is a huge difference between having $sex with a woman that wants to and one that does not and is being forced to. Legalizing prostitution (like Holland) crates a profession that willing women will join who will provide a great service. $sex slaves are being forced to engage in prostitution and will never provide the same great service a willing prostitute would.
Wait, so legalizing prostitution made the sex traffic problem WORSE in Denmark......not actually suprising. Too many American's have this false view of how legalized prostitution would clean things up, it wouldn't. Trafficked women, would still be trafficked, those in the trade to support drug habits would not get hired by the legal brothels and would still be working the street dangerously. Even in the legal brothels, many women would be victims of "pimps" held as slaves.
Legalized prostitution would not solve all the problems people think it would. But it is still something we can look into and see if it can be done right.
I don't see the women complaining at the Nevada brothels.
ACORN actually encouraged slave trading right here in America while democrats / liberals backed them. I say we start there in this country.
psst... ACORN was last year's talking point. Go listen to Rush for your new instructions.
Tony – They tend to hang around like parasites. That would be not only the pimps but the demcorats and liberas.
Conversely, the bandwidth used for viewing Internet pornography in Sweden has skyrocketed.
I will state that I am against women being physically forced or other coerced into prostitution.
I have no problem with a woman making a concious choice (not drug induced) to sell her body if she has no moral or other problem with it.
That does not mean I'm going to solicit these women. It just means I'm fine with them having the choice.
Personally I'd rather see it legalized and taxed along with enforcing regular/monthly blood tests for STDs.
If Sweden is so against women selling their bodies then they should logically be eliminating strip clubs as well since the women in those establishments are essentially selling their bodies as well, just not providing the happy ending.
It seems in sweden a brother and sister could grow up in very similar circumstances, they could grow up poor and living in the streets. The major difference in their lives would be that the Swedish feminists would embrace the sister for engaging in prostitution(which is really a crime in most states), while anything the brother does to get by is going to be criminalized. If they both grow up stunted she can sell her body, but he cannot buy one. Sweden sees all men who want sex as criminals. It's an evolutionary urge. Women don't get it because they don't have it. I feel bad for that brother, or that guy who is too unattractive or too unintelligent or just not someone females like, his urges are criminalized. That's great system you got there Sweden, no wonder Julian Assange is being charged with rape for having sex with two different women without their knowledge. Sweden is so far left they have nowhere to the left to go except to take mens human rights away, oh wait they already did that if you compare what women's groups call human rights, I guess its not human rights when its mens rights.
Exactly, criminalize the men and protect the women from their own responsibilities.
I guess we know who runs government in Sweden; the women. Instead of wasting time making dumb laws they should be home taking care of business with their men in the bedroom. That way the men won't be out looking to get it on.
Andrew, I feel bad for that guy as well, but you said it well: he "is too unattractive or too unintelligent or just not someone females like". So... any woman to sleep with that guy would have to be coerced into it, there is really no other way to get someone to take care of his urges. Why is that OK in your book?? It's not his urges that are criminalized. It's the way he chooses to solve his urges, which is a big difference.
And in your example with the brother and the sister you really make no sense. If they are both poor, it is impossible to make it equivalent that she is forced to sell herself and he is (how?) forced to... buy sex???
Similar to what you call men's natural urges (to mate), that you also claim women don't understand (really? long discussion, but to make it short, short skirts and skimpy dresses would not exist if women were not able to understand that urge, sorry mate, they're not the inferior creatures you think they are), women have the natural urge to get stability, a partner that provides for the offspring. So, for the unintelligent ones, unattractive and so on, maybe we could force some wealthy men into satisfying the poor souls, let's feel sorry for them too.
You see, I would appreciate it if you spoke only for yourself, I don't consider myself that urged to find a nice girl that I would find it OK to pay or force one. And I do feel sorry for the unattractive loser who cannot get some the normal way, but I don't think it society's problem. I prefer to get the girls with my charm and with (stunningly for you) sincere admiration for their grace, their pacifism, their intelligent conversation, and incredible softness.
You know, you might find the urges justified, but when you step on someone else's right to protect their urge (to not be raped, in this case), it becomes a crime. I say the only real solution is to man up and be a gentleman. Nothing, absolutely nothing compares to the comfort and rush I get in my body when the girl I like gives me a sincere, passionate embrace. And that, my friend you'll never get from a coerced woman.
actually, Sweden is anything to the left. They have one of the most prohibitionist societies in the industrialized world prohibiting the use of any and all substances and stifling any discussion about protecting civil liberties. Their approach to a modern society is to criminalize personal behavior, severely limit privacy, and to use brainwashing in school to stifle civil liberties and the concept of personal freedom. Sweden is safe, but high rates of boredom stifle creativity, increase the suicide rate and cause Swedes to become comitt binge behavior when they travel to other, more free places in Europe
End Modern Day Slavery... B.S..
I know what' behind the world currency - Putting things too religious. The currency controls prostitution and slavery.
I'm very very very tired in recession and reading this article. It like.... There's no life. I don't mind working hard.
You typing will become more coherent if you take your thumb out of your azz.
Give it a try homie, you can always stick something else up there for that feel good love and touch you so seek.
Nigeria really is the outhouse of the world. I can't help but think that the US should be there taking care of business.
Yet another reason why Sweden is better than the United States.
Free sex for everybody!
Taxpayer and Football Fan etc. If the figures are exaggerated it still does not make what does happen okay. If you think that many of the lads don't go off together and go to strip clubs and hookers you are dreaming. You make it out so difficult to kidnap and hold a trafficked woman, as against what, being law abiding and not earning so much? You are so naive, it does happen and they are held, watched etc. I would accept your position better if you had personally been around the trafficking tracking and seen some of the women. Then you would have a position from which to get the truth you seek, not a whole lot of conjecture about how hard it is to kidnap, beat and abuse people. A huge part of Mexico is doing just that, hard as it is according to you. I have no problem with a woman selling sex without a pimp, but only some do that, and they are in the prostitute groups that are vocal. What about the women, girls and some boys who are lured into it, and kept there by force? How many need to be in this position before it is okay for you to accept it is happening? Go with an open mind and work with one of those non-profits you vilify, and actually find out, dude, then write a paper giving good citations, your basic assumptions in what you wanted to see – what is actually going on, or to prove that it is not bad for anyone – and then I will read your point of view. I don't know why you think it "appears to be difficult" to pull off a forced sex or kidnapping stint. Maybe for you, but not for people who have grown up around that and have done it lots. Impoverished communities don't have the same context as middle class ones, from policing down to who will help you if you are pulled off the street, to your parents selling you. I am from the third world and have seen this indifference even here in slums.
Like any CNN article they are calling prostitution and sex trafficking the same thing. MOST prostitutes work on their own. It's just the woman's groups that have led you fools to believe this crap. Most woman go into this profession for the same reasons men turn to crime, because of drug addiction. So why decriminalize what the women do and criminalize what the men do. Lets call a spade a spade, their not undocumented sex slaves, they're prostitutes plain and simple. I'm waiting to see what the left comes up with next.
It is f3m1n1st bull like this that devalues all liberal ideals.
That is the very point of article. They think sex worker is always slave and victim and their customer is always the criminal. The author does not care about facts, it is a pure hate propaganda.
What is the problem if the prostitutes are working "on their own", and want to do it to make a living?? Who does it offend other than the Baptist zealots ? ?
It offends all of the fugly (fat and ugly) and useless wives who don't know or don't want to take care of their husbands in the bedroom and they are forced to look for pleasure else where. All these fuglies start complaining to the authorities and then they are forced to do something about it.
Ladies take care of your men so they don't have to go get it else where (or at least not as much; men like variety). You should never let your man leave the house hungry and horny in the morning...he may not come back that night.
This is the dummest thing I ever heard in my life. If CNN wants to start a FREEDOM PROJECT....lets start by freeing people who want to be freed. We all live in America and are trapped in debt, loans, financial issues that come from the government and economy. Inflation goes up and what happens....we end up working ten times harder to support ourselves and our families. Wake up, modern day slavery is in our everyday routine. Capitalism is the source of it all. If Equality is the utopia, we are far from that. Maybe even going in the opposite direction.
It is time to get rid of money and go to a resource base economy. thevenusproject.com
ha you said everything is true. This is why I'm popping U.S dollar Decline News. I usually read them.
Charlie, the average American's plight, while disturbing, is hardly comperable to women kidnapped and forced into slavery. When you are forced into slavery and have no choice about your future, then you can compare the two.
I was in the left lane, all alone. A Maserati moved up on me real fast and real close. The driver? Female, 30-ish, bushy bleached blond hair, huge sunglasses, garish clothing. I pulled over and she flew past. If you want, you can tell me she wasn't a porn queen. Maybe she was a happy housewife. Or an executive VP.
When you criminalize s3x between consenting adults, as most of the world has done, you're going to have a lot of criminals. Nothing new here. Passing prostitution off as slavery is as dishonest as the criminals. Pretending that drug laws have nothing to do with it is also dishonest. If these lies persist, the injustices will persist.
As for Sweden's laws, this is just about as gender-biased as Pakistan, but in the other direction. Ironically, Sweden was once known as the most s3xually liberated country in the world. They should be ashamed of what they have become.
This law will work to "move" the demand to other countries but it won't eliminate it. Until the non-judgemental view is taken that sex is a service that can be regulated and women are placed in positions of power where they can regulate it as well as form unions to better their working conditions the problem will persist. Ask any of these women if they would prefer to work in a coal mine or in construction and you might start to see it differently: sex can be an easy way to make money and the only thing that makes them feel degraded is often the judgement of those around them (often other women if you do a little historical research)...
Slave Currency is attacking WHITE WOMEN and WHITE FATHERS.
Thanks to Israel banks and China banks; Behind those billionaire financiers.
They said to RICH DEVILS.... Nice going for destroying the world. You devalue the world's currency.
We aren't pay you sh**t. prostitution and casino is not business model.
The late great George Carlin had a good point about all this. "Selling is legal! F***ing is legal! Why isn't selling f***ing legal?! Why is it illegal to sell something that's perfectly legal to give away for free??" 🙂
Agree.
From the sounds of CNN and every other left wing news outlet you'd think men, even poor men have the world by the balls. Its funny the ratio of men to women in prison is like 10 to 1 men, but CNN and women's organizations will still fight for women to be able to break the law, or decriminalize laws that women break more often then men. It's like nobody ever sat back and thought, hey why are men doing these crimes, is it because of some evolutionary urge. Nobody ever sticks up for the man. OH AND THE GENDER GAP, THAT CAN BE EXPLAINED BY THE RISKY NATURE OF MEN, MORE AT THE TOP(BILLIONAIRES) AND MORE AT THE BOTTOM(PRISONERS). But for some reason when they do the numbers they leave out prisoners to make it look more unfair.
Slavery = bad. Child sex is one of the worst things EVER.
A woman should be able to use her body with any other legal adult for any purpose she sees fit to her own benefit. If that means 10 men a day, and she is happy with it, has health care and knows her options....who has the right to tell her otherwise? Who has the right to take that income stream from her? Not a pimp, and certainly not a government that would otherwise not look at her twice.
Slavery of ANY sort is bad. Those using children should be executed.
Agree.
Why do people equate prostitution to child $ex enslavement?
That is like equating having $ex with a regular consenting adult and pedophilia. There is a huge difference.
Slavery and pedophilia are absolutely wrong and should never be tolerated. Prostitution, on the other hand, is a transaction between two consenting adults that has no victims; it should be legal.
And legalizing prostitution could go a long way to reduce demand for slaves -helping the children. Call me crazy but I would take the "No child left behind" concept a step further and low-jack every one of them so that irregular movements would expose kidnappers, trafficers, etc. and make it too dangerous to make children into commodities.
Actually that sounds pretty good in theory but if you implant a chip on the children there would be scum doctors for hire to remove those chips and possibly put the kids in more danger.
Something tells me that sex is here to stay, or do we think that people are just screwing around?
SLAVE and WORLD CURRENCY.... You deserved it. You want to create real life doomsday world during recession. Look at the world right now. Greece, Iceland, Japan, Haiti, and the rest of the world.
WHITE WORLD is make people sick. It's make poor white fathers sick to see their daughters got raped by money strangers.
It is your own breath bl0wing back in your face, and your 3rd grade language skills, that make you, and everyone, sick.
🙂
Daughter for Money Strangers.
The "white world" is the cause of all that plagues mankind? That's an awfully nice Irish name you have there, McBride.
The world Currency and SEX MACHINE? Ha... Italian PM slept with underage girls. Tiger Woods slept with many Prositution girls. It's About Money. They paid them to SPREAD STD OF THE WORLD.... YEeeeehahhhaa..
IT'S SUPER WHITE WHITE WORLD. Kiss my irish azz.
What in dafk are you talking about? Are you stoned on H right now? Go back to fkn bed. The adults are talking.
Just read all the comments on this page along with some of your own comments , and listen to your selves,,,
and then look at some of the young people that are the victoms of all of this ,,,
and speeking of the young people, what are they learning from you on this page ,,, shame on you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it should be STOPED NOW ...
Every time a man has $-ex with a woman he is paying for it; one way or another.
Marriage is also a form of prostitution. The man works and pays for housing, clothing and food. Heck it may even be more expensive than going to a prostitute since most married couples only have $-ex once or twice a month. Imagine $2000 between housing, utilities, food and clothing (more like $5000 in California) and having $ ex twice a month? Wow $1000-$2500 per session!
Prostitution should be legal. Like George Carlin says: "Selling is legal. $-ex is legal. So why the ƒuck is selling $ ex not legal?"
Until men stand up for and demand legalized prostitution it won't happen. How many women do you know who want to legalize prostitution and risk having their boyfriends and husbands cheat on them? It's a gender issue and women campaigned for the right to vote (19th Amendment) based on outlawing prostitution and liquer. The nation was able to reverse prohibition but prostitution had to go underground. Why did alchohol get legal status while prostitution did not? Because alcohol was not perceived to be in competition with married women whereas prostitution was. Well, that's my theory at least but I'm no academic...
I'll drink to that!
Looks like a good theory to me. Women just don't understand men's needs these days.
This may come as a shock to women but prostitution actually helps men stay in their marriage longer. Men will understand this perfectly but women will be like huh !!??!?
It is simple. A man still wants a companion he can come home to and talk to and have a family with. Yet he also wants $ex and the vast majority of married women don't provide that often enough. That is when a prostitute fills that need for men. Men are not looking to replace the wife...they just want the $ex. Like eating...most men like a home cooked meal...but every now and then they enjoy eating out.
If you think its a reasonable theory, why not become an academic and publish it? If all these men who are writing here, became academics and made sense of their theories, that mind end the feminist control of gender studies.
Fat africans, isnt that enough of a deterrent for prostitution on its own?
I am laughing as most of these posts..............LOL!
Men, keeping telling yourselves these women actually WANT to sell themselves to your ugly azzes...........LMFAO! Keep LYING to yourselves, if that makes you feel better! HILARIOUS!
Laugh on. The whole army is out of step but you.
Consider talking to some workers in the trade; there are message boards about it – search around, you'll find ladies (and men) who are in the trade of their own volition who would tell you that you're dead wrong in your thinking.
Valerie those women want the money, just like coal miners, ditch diggers, construction workers, etc. That should be obvious. What is less obvious is which insecurities about yourself (self esteem, physical appearance, etc.) you are trying to hide with your laughter at all of the men posting here. Valerie once you discover your self worth your self esteem will sky rocket and these prostitutes will be less of a (perceived) threat to you.
If a government wants to allow prostitution, which I think it really should in order to curb black market activity, there are a few things that should happen.
1) Have all prostitutes register with the local authorities, providing various details such as you'd find on a driver's license and birth certificate. Keep registration costs low.
2) Allow it only in registered brothels. Hold them accountable should they not having properly registered women.
3) Make the fines for visiting a non-registered prostitute extremely high, removing a theoretical year's worth of profit for the woman and a few hundred or thousand dollars for the man in a single bust. Hold both parties culpable.
By force the activity above board and making below board activity too expensive we can solve this issue.
Why don't won't they destroy Jewish & Religious temple and replace DEVIL STATUES OF THE WOLRD?
Because they might grab you by mistake.
Get some therapy, dude, seriously.
You know Religion is dying... You can tell the power of roman catholic church, Islamic Temple,Jewish Temples, Buddhist Temples....
Everything will be Fill with PIMPS like rap music, lie, cheat, steal, worshipping, cartels, conterfiet, Unions, etc. Hahhahah Doooooomsday... DOOOMMSDAY.
May 22, 2011... Yes. Christians saw the ugly world.
4) Make sure the prostitutes are attractive. I mean did you see the ones in this video. I mean seriously? Who would pay for that? Ugh.
You never see all sides of a story whenever "prostitution" is the issue. Believe it or not, some of us "choose" to be in this business and see it as an entertainment service. We enjoy what we do. The issue we have is having to do our own defense against abusive customers without being able to go to the police for help. I end up doing a very thorough screening process which has worked. So if the following items were put in place, I believe prostitution would no longer be a material crime issue: 1. Legalize prostitution. 2. Mandate professional l icensing based on required health, safety, and regulatory education (yes, let's treat this like any other service profession). 3. BACKGROUND CHECKS should be required for licensing. 4. Health standards developed for the activities that must be adhered to. 5. Make sure all these prior steps are done in a way to still allow the customer experience to be spontaneous and fun! 6. Prosecute diligently PIMPS, and those that do not abide by the rules.
Since the oldest profession in the world is not going to go away (even the article above eludes to the fact that it only moves around), let's improve the situation for us all. And lastly, EXECUTE those involved with "traffiicking" victims as this activity is worse than murder!
Don't forget income taxes so you need to have receipts etc.
there is a book out ,,, Desert nights ,,, read it , or some of you read A book please ,,,
Sweden passed a tough law on alcohol consumption which pushed Swedes to do their drinking in Norway.
Sweden passed a tough passed a tough bill that cracked down on prostitution while Denmark has been called the "Brothel of Scandinavia."
So, what happened?
"Swedes are driving to Denmark!!!!!!"
This is how they have always lived in Europe. The EU is only a convenience for bankers. At least Denmark is nearby for the Swedes. Nevada is far away for New Yorkers.
Every city or town in the US has prostitution in one form or another. Being hypocrites about it doesn't make us bette, but rather better hypocrites.
Actually Norway have an even tougher prohibition on alcohol than Sweden, it is Denmark that both Norwegians and Swedes have gone to for alcohol since they couldn't get it in the amounts they wanted (or they moonshine...If you look at the amount of yeast being sold in Norway and divide it with how much it would take to make an average bread, Norway could feed a country 4-5 times its size...) The Danes on the other hand went to Germany for tax-free alcohol before the EU free trade agreement, which is a whole different story, since all alcohol is sold at a very high tax.
Don`t think I`l ever get married. Really don`t need some feminine-biased social structure putting it`s hands in my pocket or a judge impacting my life via child support decrees.
I make enough money to afforad a lifesyle and have interests which seduce the most desirable of women so my sexual appetite is usually satisfied. As long as I`m rich, I`l have more female companioship than I can handle. Even when I`m old,gray and shrivelled, I `ll be able to command my selection of the finest of my peer females to meet my needs.
Don`t get me wrong, I like and truly care for some of these females but when it gets too complicated, when the risk to my happiness gets to great, I`m outta there.
Seems ther is too much downside to relationships with women unless you manuever them all the time and maintain the upper hand. Too bad. I really would like to find my soulmate, who will want to have raise fine, ambitious, accomplished children with me, do me like a porn star 3/4 time a week, and love me for me and not what I can do for her – BUT ther`s a fat chance of that happening so I`ll revert to a life of hitting and running.
Well, you got to remember the relative proximity between the two countries and how easy it is to go there now they build a bridge. If the swedes can't get what they want, they just drive a few hours west. For the longest time swedes have done the same thing when they wanted to buy alcohol freely, since the state had monopoly on selling alcohol and it was rationed, and the danes have profited from it immensely. Sweden is a prime example that prohibition does not work. What is out of sight is out of mind, but it does not stop anything, you just go somewhere else. They may wrap it up to make it look nice and call it human rights, but its really just prohibition under a different name. I seriously doubt that any prohibition will put a damper on peoples desire for any kind of vice, they'll get it no matter what. It may not be out in the public for all to see, but its still there and likely linked to all sorts of organized crime, which is harder to do if its out in the public like in Denmark and Netherlands and properly taxed and regulated. The police in Denmark are having an easier time than the Swedish, because they all know where the stuff is concentrated, safer for everybody. Prostitution is the worlds oldest industry and it is likely not going to go away just because you think it away and prohibit it or cover it up. So don't be so hoyti toyti telling the world, oh look how nice we are in Sweden, we have no vice problems, you just export it or it has gone underground... Sex tourism to the next not so dry county...
It is only close if you live in the south of Sweden.
Laws like the ones in sweden will just result in pushing more and more men away from these puritanian retro societies where freedom and respect for heterosexual men has become basically inexistent.
UK faces similar problems being more and more under the influence of feminazi groups. People are leaving in droves.
BTW have you ever seen a feminist in Asia? its something which does not exist bc they are not as fcuking retarded as European women. the only reason for these laws is the fact that the caucasian women realize that they are the least attractive and age terribly badly compared to Latin, Asian and African women. So they simply exclude the competition.
Who is interested in these aging cougars anyway.
So the theory is that if we focus on punishing the users and not suppliers then the demand would decrease. Major duh! But taken to it's conclusion we should focus on increasing punishment for drug users and not the drug pushers who typically come from underprivileged environments and have few choices. Similarly, we would punish (more severely) anyone hiring an illegal immigrant rather than the illegal immigrant themselves and thus reduce the demand for illegal immigrants. How about punishing banks for having too much money resulting in the underprivileged from robbing them? Punishing people who carry around too much cash as it tempts the underprivileged to mug them? At what point can we say that a persons life is so tough they acquire a 'get out of jail' card for various crimes?
You are wise, Marcus. Never commit to them. The old days are gone.
There's this RACIST Rich White Guy who did x rated video. He had TWO Weenies and raped a lot of poor religious women.
I have to say that I am impressed with many of the posts to this forum. Western h3t3ros3xual men are beginning to wake up and speak up. I've been waiting many years to see this, never believing it would really happen. Even the young men are figuring it out. And we never read any self-help books either. We didn't see it on Dr. Phil. We didn't band together and march down the street carrying signs. We didn't try to have the Constitution changed either.
Much of what f3m1n1sm has done can never be undone. Marriage is toast, the family is toast, and a whole generation of young people – just turning 25 now – has been hurt. BUT – at least some men no longer buy into this hoax. And this is good.
You bet we do. Especially well educated men who are not born into too traditionalistic families. I myself have a PhD in neurobiology and my peers are either happily single or married to Asian women. Due to my work I have alot of international co workers and travel alot.
That was my luck which opened my eyes at the lies which go on so blatantly by the feminazis and the media in the west. strange why the western women would complain about sexual slavery? they dont give a sh!t about those poor women losing their health in the slave factories which manufacture their stupid handbags and high heels but they get all crazed up about it when a young woman seeks her luck by dating western men? sorry western loser cougar women. we dont need you anymore. you have to WORK for your money, thats what you dont like admit it
Wow...there must be a lot of johns here...some of these comments are truly remarkable in showing how selfish, hedonistic and ego-centric modern men have become. I have a high libido and I'm very attracted to women – but I've turned down more women for s3x than I've engaged in intercourse with. Any man who says he "just has to get it somewhere" is a weak, selfish individual who, regardless of age, is not really a man in my eyes. So many of problems in the world are due to people abusing their power, and men need to learn how to be more responsible with their s3xual desires. I keep mine in check and respect women, would never solicit a prostitute and feel that selling the function that allows us to procreate and be incredibly close to one another is a sad, sad thing and shows the honest truth about what ugly monsters many of us have become.
And for all of you quoting George Carlin...you might want to look up his other bit on prostitution in Thailand. And keep in mind that he was a happily married man twice in his life, and I do believe his commandment piece also mentioned his regard and respect for marital fidelity. I'm not a religious person nor a prude, and yes I have some incredibly lusty thoughts about women on a daily basis (rather an hourly basis as well as minute by minute, I'll admit it!)...but that doesn't mean I can't wait until I have someone I care about in my life to share my s3xuality with.
Grow up, boys. You're a blight and shame to our gender.
Drunks get the DTs. It is a fitting handle.
Spot on.
This article totally ignores the fact that the working conditions for prostitutes have become more dangerous in Sweden since the introduction of this law (whereby it is legal to sell but not to buy). It also ignores the fact that scarce police resources have been redirected from combatting normal crime to go after the average and otherwise law-abiding Joe looking for $ex. It also ignores the fact that organized crime has been lured to Sweden to take part of underground profits (just as what happened in the U.S. when alcohol was outlawed during the prohibition period.)
Furthermore, this article also ignores the fact that there are definitely independent prostitutes who want to work as such. (Several have loudly complained and with good aguments tried to get their points across in Swedish media.) I also sends the message that adult women do not have the mental capabilities to themselves decide and take responsibility for what they do with their own bodies.
As if this wasn't enough, Swedish rape statistics have sky-rocketed since the introduction of this law. On a global scale, there is a correlation between the security and safety of women and society's acceptance of prostitution. A normal, non-prostitute, woman walking at night in a short skirt on a street in a prostitution-liberal city like Copenhagen in Denmark, Amsterdam in the Netherlands, Bangkok in Thailand, or Tokyo in Japan is safer than if she does the same thing in Stockholm in Sweden.
Prostitution exists for a reason. $ex is natural. $ex is a need. $ex is healthy for people's mental state. If some people voluntarily choose to spend large amounts of money to buy $ex from other adults, we should not moralize about it. What happened to personal responsibility?
Several leading experts on prostitution in Sweden reject this law. Recently, when the law was supposed to be evaluated, by order of the justice minister, the evaluation was lead and directed by a person who had aldready decided what the outcome was going to be. No proper evaluation was conducted, and contrary to the official conclusions, the facts pointed in another direction. It was heavily critized, but nothing was done to correct it.
This Swedish law making purchasing of $exual services illegal is highly controversial, yet "politically correct", and most people who are against it keep quiet. Even so, the law has met massive criticism. It is an ideologically motivated law suggested, implemented, and supported by feminist groups. This article is not balanced, and by excluding important and relevant facts, it paints a false picture of reality.
This is a great article that addresses the international models of combating trafficking. However, as a consultant for a non-profit working to eradicate trafficking within the United States, I would like to share a few different models within the United States. There is a great discrepancy in definitions of trafficking, especially in the context of child sex trafficking victims, between state and federal laws within the United States. Depending on the state, the laws may deem a a child, who is found to be commercially sexually exploited, as a criminal.
Therefore, ECPAT-USA and other non-profits have developed the Safe Harbor Project, which advocates for a model that correctly identifies our children as victims and not criminals. To find out more, check out http://ecpatusa.org/what-we-do/law-project/.
Every dog has his day. The sun is setting on f3m1n1sm. Get it while you can.
Fair enough Angeline (Jolie?).
You're talking about child trafficking. I do agree that child trafficking victims should not be criminalised.
But I think the main point of this article is debating between two different approaches to adult prostitution/ sex work. If it was about child trafficking I think the tone would be different entirely. Just a different angle.
If prostitution is illegal, it is perfectly logical to criminalize and punish the buyer. It is perfectly logical to punish the buyer with more than a mere slap on the wrist, to provide a true disincentive. It is also perfectly logical to presume that the majority of women selling their bodies are forced to do it, (by drug addiction, poverty, pimps, and in some case sex traffickers). Therefore, it is perfectly logical to punish the John proportionately more than the prostitute because the only duress he's under is from his libido. In conclusion, one cannot logically criticize this legislation. Hey Swedish legislators, could we borrow you for a session or two?
Remember sandra bullock & jesse james..... OMG... New World Order is ruined the world. They are christmas tree into recession. Everything is falling apart.
Learn about capital letters, and stay away from the chat room.
The Swedish law against the purchase of sexual services went into effect on January 1, 1999 after having been passed by parliament on May 29, 1998. The article erroneously mentions 1995.
I remember reading about this when it was passed, but I had forgotten which country had done it. The most amazing thing is that it is not thought of as gender bias. I'm sure that in Pakistan, when they cut the woman's nose and ears off and left her to bleed to death, they too thought it was appropriate and just.
"O, the gift that ere He gee us, to see ourselves as others see us."
The law is very lenient, not a single person has gone to jail in 12 years but if you want to compare that to cutting off noses, be my guest.
That's right. I also noticed that error.
So, if I understand Swedish Law correctly, my employer is a criminal. Because I'm forced to work by circumstance or coercion. I mean, I wouldn't be at work each day my circumstance didn't require me to have to earn money to pay for things like... Food. And I'm coerced by my bill collectors to keep paying them or they will do things like... foreclose on my house.
Just saying... while stopping legitimate human trafficking is the right thing to do, stopping legal prostitution is a waste of time and tax payer dollars. Let people who want, or need, to pay for sex to do so in a safe and legal manner. While those who want to sell sex, also do so in a safe and legal manner.
I cannot believe some people still genuinely believe that the majority of sex trafficking is voluntary. I don't know if they're just uneducated or trying to find excuses for having bought/wanting to buy sex services...or maybe there's some other inadequately explored reason. But from what I understood in the comments – in all honesty, do these people actually believe that just because of high libido they have the right to exploit, disgrace and mentally traumatize the women and children forced into prostitution? I see people who even after having read this article STILL hold on to their ignorant beliefs. I'm lost-why would you want to do something like that to another human being?
you are the one who does not see reality. how could you traffick in the shengen area?? why are all the prostitutes ukrainian polish czech hungarian romanian bulgarian? they can travel around more or less freely. no need for traffickers. they know exactly what they are doing. they want easy money. otherwise they would have to work in some factory for 200$ a month. if they can get it for one romp then that romp is not so much exploiting isn t it? wake up from your feminazi brainwash
The drastic Swedish increase in rape cases apparent after the 1995 bill was passed criminalizing sex buyers is not mentioned anywhere in the article.
You always have to be careful about statistics. There could be many reasons why the amount of rape cases has exploded. Maybe there are just more people coming forward since there are more focus on it or its easier to report, or it is easier to collect records from across the country since it has all been computerized since then. Or maybe it has been easier to prosecute these case, due to a lesser requirements of proof... To tie it to just one dimension simplify it too much...
comments on superbowlsex fiasco...SPAM. tip that started it...Diversionary tactic to discredit real truth of child hostage sex abuse. someone increased numbers from maybe 10 children to thousands. maybe one had bet he would be found. The Rest Is SPAM.
I have to laugh when these (always unproven) reports come in about a girl having sex with 20 men per night. probably in their dreams they wish they had as many customers! the most popular girls in pattaya can get about 3 on a good day. most get not more than a handful a month! listen to the girls there. they always complain about too few customers. never ever has a girl complained about having too many 🙂
lets not forget that Sweden is the same miserable country which wanted Julian Assange extradited on the basis of made up rape allegations. Country to avoid!
Uhhh... It seems that from your two examples it is a country to avoid if you need to purchase, or forcefully take, consent from a woman to successfully have intercourse. So if you fall into that sorry lot, then yes- Sweden has little to offer you. Then again life has little to offer you, so...
Wow, how did comments go from Danish/Swedish sex trade to Palestine/Israel. Someone forget to take their ADD meds today?
Serious problem, but worse yet is a Prosecutor comparing Pimps to someone who runs out of gas. Maybe a priority issue for their criminal justice system.
I can usually make it through the comments on an article, but just couldn't do it here. I'm embarrassed for many of you, and disgusted by some. There's no need for name calling. There's also no need to disparage women just because you can't find one who finds you attractive without being forced.
I agree with you and I am male. This article had made lots of Johns coming out to post that's for sure.
like yourself lol. happy wanking
I have been to Sweden and seen their beautiful women. No need to pay for sex.
Just go there in summer, get a tan and black hair and say that your name is Fernando from Madrid, if you can roll the r's then you're gettin' laid DUDE!
Thats because spanish and italian guys dont have the money to travel further than europe. so they have to exploit the isolated scandinavian girls and try to impress them with their macho BS. I bet you cant even afford a dinner or the taxi to the room with these girls (which would be equal paying for sex, so basically you are a criminal as soon as you are involved with a woman in sweden!)
a virgin in the philippines costs about as much as 2 beers in sweden, there is less snow and its full of tropical beaches too so I will give sweden a miss 🙂
Interesting approach Sweden has: shaming and punishing the buyer. We should definitely try this in America. I wonder if the same approach would work with drugs? Or would that just result in locking up tons of otherwise law-abiding citizens while the pushers go free? Of course, to all this there's still some moral irony: It's wrong to pay for sex from a stranger, but if you get sex from a stranger for free, that's okay? It's only the receipt that's wrong? Sounds kind of silly. But since very few people want to go back to the old days when the only kind of sex that was allowed was married sex, and sex outside of marriage was punished decisively and harshly, half-measures like this might be all that's available.
"Dude, you're a pot-head!"
"Yeaahhh…" "You got any pizza?"
If a man and woman want to have sex, it's none of the state's business. If an adult wants to give money to another adult, it's none of the state's business. The ends do not justify the means. The Swedish govt should butt out of the sex lives of consenting adults, paying or otherwise. It's called Freedom.
only problem with that is that some nasty men go to poor countries, recruit young girls promising them real jobs (never mentioning sex) then when they arrive to the new country, their documents are taken and they are threaten to sell themselves for sex. That shouldn't be legal
So, would you advocate outlawing marriage because some husbands abuse their wives?
I'm against sex trafficking, I don't mind prostitution.
What gets outlawed is the abuse of wives. On the other hand, what is (in Western countries) against the law are various "marriages" that are covers for abuse, child rape, and forced marriage. Your example is rife with problems. Also, you failed to read the article. Go read it now and get back to us on whether you think these laws are the state butting in to what consenting adults do, or a WORKING method of stemming a bloody tide of slavery within its borders.
My example works quite well. And your initial answer is correct. Just as you outlaw spouse abuse leaving marriage intact, so you outlaw sex slavery but leave prostitution in general alone. You chided Chris elsewhere for not reading the article, but it appears to be you who has failed to either read it or comprehend it.
If they really want to abolish the "slavery" of prostitution, why don't they follow the illustrious example of the US–murder hundreds of thousands of the citizens, rape and pillage the villages and towns, rape and abuse the slaves, and then write history books about how righteous they were for eradicating prostitution.
Which is exactly what Sweden did in the 17th century when it conquered the southern part of what is now Sweden from Denmark, initializing a regular genocide and swedification (of-lack-of-better word) of the general population, ousting farmers from their land, raping women and killing the men. Of course that happened long before the instant media coverage we have today, and back then rape and pillage was considered proper payment for soldiers.
In Sweden buying sex's a crime but selling it's not?? Whatta bunch of baloney discrimination; stinks of man-hating to me. What two consenting adults do in private's no-one's business but theirs, whether money's involved or not. Please quit trying to shove your morality down my throat.
I agree with you, what someone does in private is their own business, WHEN IT IS CONSENSUAL YOU FOOL. This is not going on in private between two consenting adults and that is what the article is about (if you even bothered reading it at all).. This human slavery is going on out in the open. This is not a consensual situation. Therefore the point of view that you and I share, which is, Keep your crucifix out of my bedroom, is not valid here.
I was commenting about Sweden's law in-general; once I read that much that's all I needed for that kind of comment. And I don't appreciate your rude namecalling; get some anger management. Now where's that button to report abuse?
Read the article, Chris. You'd look less foolish.
Read my reply to Dee, above. More name-calling from angry women??
My post was short. I called you no names. I see the problem here.
"Foolish" isn't name-calling? I hope you're referring to the obvious problem you have with seeing...
@dee&trist: Chris seems to have read the article; not sure you did. His comments fit the article; it is dealing with prostitution in general, not just sex slavery.
The article is not dealing with prostitution in general. It is dealing with laws concerned with prostitution which are in place to stem the tide of slavery. If you're confused, start at the top of the page and check out CNN's title banner. Then move to the headline on the article. Then try summing up the gist.
Yes, there is discussion about the general topic of prostitution. Yes, the dangers of being a prostitute are covered for both countries. But this is definitely an article about ending sex slavery, not about "What two consenting adults do in private's no-one's business but theirs, whether money's involved or not."
He either didn't read the article, or was only able to take away that there was this one particular law he didn't like. His assumption that it was based on a morality somebody was shoving down his throat (Is he in Sweden? Bet not) and that it was "man-hating" to charge the buyer, rather than the prostitute, as is most common.
@trist: Neither Chris nor I have argued that sex slavery is not in view. But Sweden's law does not outlaw sex slavery, it outlaws prostitution *in general*. By the way, your grade-school-like instructions to others on how to re-read for understanding serve only to reveal an openly-condescending spirit in you. I'd suggest you avoid them in future debate; they only reflect poorly on you.
Tristen: "The article is not dealing with prostitution in general."
Is this paragraph not right near the top: "In 1995, Sweden passed a tough bill that cracked down on prostitution. What made this law different, however, was who would be held responsible for the crime of prostitution. It's not illegal to sell sex. It is, however, illegal to buy sex.?" Sounds a lot like discussing prostitution in general in Sweden to me. Am I not allowed to comment on an ancillary, but imho important issue raised? Just because the article's main issue is sex-trafficking doesn't mean it doesn't also raise important secondary issues. And in my opinion it's wrong on the part of the author to juxtapose two separate issues like that; the effect is to confuse the issues in the readers' minds and fool them into thinking that Sweden-style anti-prostitution law (unjust discrimination that would never be upheld by the courts here) is somehow necessary to combat sex-trafficking (which entails nasty things like kidnapping, unlawful confinement, assault, and rape). More demonizing of the male buyers, and excuse-making for female sellers. And I don't appreciate you trying to hijack the discussion by telling me what I can and cannot comment about.
Tristen: "He either didn't read the article, or was only able to take away that there was this one particular law he didn't like."
I don't appreciate the repeated psychoanalysis (you telling me what I've done or what I think). I did read the article and I am against sex-trafficking, but again I was commenting on another issue.
Tristen: "Is he in Sweden? Bet not"
No I'm not in Sweden, but does that mean I can't make a reasonable comment about their laws? Should we not discuss the earthquake in Japan unless we're Japanese? I"m concerned that Sweden's blatantly unjust law will show up here – that's why I consider it an important issue for everyone. Are you sure that you're not just angry that I've taken what (erroneously) appears to you to be an anti-female position, and that you're not just searching for any basis to attack me personally because of your mistaken conclusion?
Tristen said: "If you're confused..."
More name-calling?
@Tristis, the Swedish law against the purchase of sexual services does indeed deal with prostitution in general, and not just the tiny part that has anything to do with crime such as trafficking or slavery. That is exactly one of the problems with that law. It is NOT intended to "end slavery", it is intended to stop men from buying sex. This law is worsening the conditions fro prostitutes, attracts organized crime to Sweden, reshuffles finances from fighting serious crime to go after lonely Joe who was seduced by prostitute Lisa at a party. If you could and would follow Swedish media, you would know that.
They do not call it the oldest profession for no reason. Men will always be willing to pay for sex and there will always be women willing to do it. I understand this article is however about those who are trafficked, but I believe it would be easier to stop illegal trafficking if we legitimized the sex worker industry by legalizing it with heavy regulation; requiring quarterly std testing, quarterly safer sex education, quarterly psychological counseling, healthcare a la a sex worker union, and special zoning to ensure red light districts do not develop anywhere. It should be private and discreet not positioned openly as an adult shop or parlor. Anyone who operates outside the system would have to pay a very stiff penalty for doing so and that of course should include the customer. Then, we would have enough resources to eliminate the this insidious plague of trafficking.
You describe a variation of the Denmark approach. It doesn't work.
whoring has been going on since the beginning of time.... slavery? who fucking cares about that either, that has also been going on since the beginning of time. i dont mind seeing gooks cleaning floors.
Troll
Gotten out on the wrong side of the cell cot this morning, have we?
These reports about large scale trafficking are almost entirely fictional. They cite one or two isolated incidents, then come up with claims of ridiculously large numbers of trafficked victims, for which there is no evidence. Sweden is a country in which feminists have immense power. The feminists had a problem. For a number of reasons, none of which have anything to do with trafficking, they loath prostitution, but as feminists they did not like the idea of arresting women. So they hit on the approach of only arresting men for prostitution. When the Swedish law was being debated, prostitutes were not permitted to testify. None of the many prostitutes' professional organizations are in favor of the Swedish approach.
The US should take a cue from Sweeden's model when it comes to the drug problem. Right now we are pouring millions into fighting a losing battle with better financed drug traffickers. If we increased penalties for use enough to significantly reduce demand, we could start winning the battle.
Just what we need...more non-violent "criminals" to throw in govt cages. What a person chooses to put into their own body is none of the govt's business. It's called Freedom; we used to believe in it here. Or so I've read.
why is this article dealing with prostitution in fucking sweden when last week there was a big 1,000,000 child sex slave sale in israel and the israelis paid the US to cover it up. That wasn't in the news!
Denmark is just a short train ride - a surburban train ride - from Sweden so if there's a problem getting things in Sweden you just hop the train (or the ferry) and you're in Denmark. Its not that much different from going to New Jersey from New York. I can't say that Copenhagen is crawling with sex slaves - I'm not that good noticing them - but relative to Sweden Denmark has cheap booze and expensive cars.
This whole sex slave thing has been going on for decades. Its how you justify repressing something that should be an open and honest trade - a variation on "Will someone think of the children".
Unfortunately Atika Schubert shows herself to be poorly competent in examine the question about prostitution and trafficking in Sweden versus Denmark. One basic thing is statistics around it, and if you go to the only reliable numbers that exist, that is cases in court and convictions made, you will find that the Swedish sex-purchase-law hasn’t done anything to reduce trafficking. Comparing Sweden and Denmark, following official statistics (which for example are published in the annually US Trafficking in Persons report, you will find, that the numbers of convicted the years 2003-2008 in Sweden were 56 and in Denmark 24. And unless Schubert wants to claim that the Danish police-forces are more incompetent than the Swedish she has to accept that she has done a very bad job in examine this question.
Quite contrary the Swedish police unit that handle sex trafficking seems to be very incompetent (the unit to which Kajsa Wahlberg belongs). Swedish police has estimated that annually 400-600 women and children are trafficked to Sweden, and the head officer of the unit, Jonas Trolle, often speaks about the big problems with trafficking in Sweden. But in reality you can find only – at a maximum – four of these claimed hundreds of victims. This means that the Swedish police unit should have a solving rate which at most lies at 0.5 percent! Such an incompetent police unit would never be accepted in any other circumstances if it wasn’t for that it is “trafficking” we talk about. This falsely blown up subject offers police units, NGOs and others gigantic sums of tax-money in a gigantic moral panic.
The Danish police forces are more realistic in their comments, and declare – contrary to the Swedish police – that sex trafficking is a relatively rare crime, according to Marlene Spanger in a big official Nordic report on prostitution in the Nordics in 2008. Instead they don’t understand the panic around this – a much more realistic view. And if we examine the figures that exist in Europe it is at a MAXIMUM 2 cases in 100,000 inhabitants, which come forward to the police annually (which includes the statistics that involves procuring, like in Sweden and Denmark, but convicted is only 0.4 in 100,000 in all of Europe). In Sweden it is at a maximum 0.3 in 100,000 (but only 0.04 convicted, in Denmark 0.05), which can be compared with for example battering where we find 927 reported cases in 100,000 inhabitants, or rape, that is 45 in 100,000 inhabitants in Sweden. Sex trafficking is a very small crime in the world, compared with other forms of crimes. (Which doesn't mean that it isn't horrible when it really occurs, like all other forcing or violent crimes). Despite this the Swedish government in 2008 granted about 30 million dollars (210 million crowns) to “fight trafficking and prostitution”. That means, even if we split this sum in 30 years, 250,000 dollars for each identified trafficking victim in Sweden. Compared to American statistics over what in average is spent on a victim for crime it means that a victim of trafficking gets about 249,300 dollars more here in Sweden than an “ordinary” victim! And the numbers don’t differ in other Western countries where enormous sums is spent on "sex trafficking victims" but not other kinds of victims. These are hard figures, no guesstimates, which show the absurdity in the trafficking panic! Does anyone believe that all these money that the governments spend is meant to help anyone trafficked?
Like “the white slavery” in the late 19th and early 20th century, according to the historians, the trafficking panic in our time is gigantically blown up, and for the same reasons as “the white slavery”: To favour all those who profits from it, like politicians, police units and other government offices, NGO:s, moral entrepreneurs like ideological radical feminists, religious fundamentalists and others. It’s among the tax-funding we find the real economic "trafficking industry", and Schubert would show herself to be a more competent journalist if she examined the real facts in the trafficking panic instead of repeating official claims. She could for example write about how the Swedish government ordered (a heavy critized) “evaluation” of the Swedish sex purchase law, which in reality was forbidden to get findings other than that the law is successful. The “evaluator” refused for example to use reports and facts that are critical to the law, and not one prostituted woman were talked to (See for example Laura Agustín and Louise Persson about this: http://www.lauraagustin.com/in-english-evaluation-of-the-evaluation-swedens-sex-purchase-law). To get facts about this subject one can’t rely only in statements from officials, who have their own interests in career and economy in this, and who also must be loyal to official agenda. A real journalist thinks critically and questions instead.
Dick Wase
Swedish historian
For the moment writing on the book “The hijacked truth – about the sex trafficking myth” (in Swedish).
Thanks for the excellent insight.
What a stupid law, now any strapped bimbo in Sweden can lure a man into dropping his pants and threaten him with telling the cops that he solicited her if he doesn't empty his wallet and go on his merry way.
If we did not know better we would all take this article for an april fools joke . paying for sex a crime but selling it being a victim? give me a break
unfortunately the feminazis dont understand alot of humour these days...
Asia has overtaken the west in terms of competitiveness for a reason. Feminist and NGO BS is virtually absent there. More and more talent in the west is fed up and heads for career opportunities in Asia with the added bonus of millions if not billions of pretty and feminine girls . compare that to the self-righteous, unaesthetic, overweight and frustrated angry women in the west who look down on any woman who dares to wear high heels and skirts as a prostitute (bc of course it means competition) and our suicidal PC society.
this trend will likely get worse bc the forces who would oppose whats happening here and see the moral ambiguity of politicians and media more and more simply leave the west and thus dont have a lobby.
Denmark has a long history of past and modern day slavery. The Danes were some of the cruelest slave owners on the planet, so no one should be surprise about their role in dealing with modern day slavery. The Danes need to do better.
And your statement is based on what "facts"? If you researched history you will find that, yes Denmark did participate in the triangular trade between Europe, Africa and Caribbian and back. Like any other European nation at the time. True, that is bad and not something to be proud of. However if you continue reading, you will also find that Denmark-Norway (a twin Kingdom back then) was the first nation to abolish transatlantic slave trade on 1 January 1803.
Sweden outlawed it in the 14th century if the slaves had Christian parents:)
You'll have to watch the below video shown on one of my favourite blogs! There are a shocking 12 million people living in modern slavery! Watch this shocking story and you're convinced forever! It changed me how I am thinking about this important topic!!
http://thewritefuture.typepad.com/the-write-future/2011/03/accept-a-victime-of-sex-trafficking-in-your-life.html
Brilliant! Decrease demand, decrease supply! Way to go Sweden!
Prostitution is a legitimate profession. Human trafficking is an issue of its own. Yes, Human trafficking occurs in prostitution, but it also happens in farm labor, household workers etc. Perhaps those jobs should be illegal too?
No, the only people who benefit from shutting down prostitution are feminists. Men will have to pay for sex with half (or more) of their earnings rather than a much lower up-front cost. Feminists rule Sweden, they use morality, human dignity and children to promote thier agenda. Hail to womankind- steal your money froma man rather than earn it
On August 18, 1853, King Frederick VII sanctioned serfdom slavery in the Danish West Indies (now the United States Virgin Islands). On October 1, 1878, the enslaved Danish West Indian subjects (primarily people of African descent) rose up against the system and were violently suppressed. On March 31, 1917, the Danish West Indian Islands were formally transferred from Denmark to the United States of America, however; the Danish West Indian subjects were never emancipated by either King Christian X of Denmark or President Woodrow Wilson of the United States of America. This deal was one of the last official sale of enslave human beings. Sadly, there are still people alive today in the Virgin Islands who were born before the transfer.
The Danish government, the United States of America government, and the United Nations are all well aware of this situation. Most people around the world have never heard of this terrible atrocity because Denmark has tried for ninety-four years to keep it quiet, but the truth is rapidly coming out. Denmark has a lot of blood on its hands.
If Heterosexuals were not so perverse, disgusting and vile, this sort of practice would never exist in the first place.
What a bigoted comment. I am heterosexual and there is nothing "perverse, disgusting and vile" about heterosexual sex. It is the most natural act that exists! Prostitution is not just a heterosexual problem. Gay people buy prostitution services too. There are plenty of gay men that buy the services of boys and men every day, so it is a huge assumption that prostitution is caused by heterosexuals. Being the victim of bigotry does not give gay people the right to be bigots themselves, not does it mean that gays are superior morally to heterosexuals in any way!
you best shut up and go lick some pussy
How could you even write something like that?
How would you like that if someone said that about homosexuals?
You know very well that homosexuals support prostitution just like heterosexuals!!! Your just being incredibly foolish and proving your complete lack of intelligence!
I'm totally against human trafficking but if a adult woman or man wants to sell services to another adult woman or man I don't have a problem with it. If fact, I think the divorce rate might drop in the US if more states had brothels like Nevada. You don't have to agree with the selling of services... Anytime you pay to hear a singer sing or athlete perform you are paying to view that person's services that are being generated by that person's body.
After reading this article, I am thinking that the better approach is to improve conditions for children and families in the countries where these women come from, so that they will not get involved in prostitution and so families\women won't be so desperate for money in the first place. However, maybe we should also stop the desire to "fix" everything and let people make their own choices -on both side buyers and sellers – without excesses government interference. There is a reason prostitution is the "oldest profession" and I think it is extreme to portray prostitutes as only victims and the men that buy their services as only evil perpetrators. There is nothing wrong with no strings attached sex for money in my opinion as long as both parties are over 18 and consenting to the situation. Men and women should have the freedom to have sex with whoever they choose without interference from the government. Governments should focus on helping children every where have better lives and protecting women from known violence, instead of trying to outlaw the "oldest profession". For one thing as this article shows, it does not work. If you read the article carefully, Sweden's strong laws have only forced prostitution underground (where it is likely more abusive because it is in secrecy) and forced it into neighboring countries – it did not irradicate it. Denmarks laws are probably a huge drag for the prostitutes their too because it cuts into their profitability. Every article I read on people trying to save "sex slaves" usually ends with the girl sneaking back to the scene, not with the girl being happy living a new life. It is a complex problem and certainly abuse and violence should be illegal and prosecuted, but we should be careful of "do gooders" or governments telling people how to live their lives -without asking the people how they want to live themselves.
Sweden has a per capita rate of rape about seven times greater than that of Denmark.
It's true: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#Sweden
I can't believe some of these responses. The reality is there will always be prostitution. Doesn't make it a good thing. If a woman does it freely because she wants to make money for herself, no pimps involved and doesn't do it to support a drug habit then she is non issue (assuming she is not spreading disease). If she is morally ok with it then thats fine.THere are plenty of women who love to see men drool and take them for whatvever they can. If men know that and they are ok with that. Noone gets hurt. It is an adult transaction on equal footing.
But ones being forced due to a drug habit or being pimped and obviously those who are sex slave is an issue.Once you take the equal footing out of it in the transaction then someone is getting hurt and it is a social and legal issue.
Some here seem to have put alot of thought into their comments and can't say I find too many I agree with, at least
they were civil. But why are there so many trolls on these sites and why are they all misognists and rednecks?
You are the troll!
whatever your job is I am sure you had it up your a$$ more than a couple of times. Forget about everyone being equal! You can tell that fairy tale to your kids.
If you are in a position where you need money you can be and are abused by the system bc you need to sell yourself as a workforce if you dont want to starve.
Its that simple. Now maybe its just me but my best guess is that prostitution pays premium wages compared to the work these women would otherwise do. and after all: its just sex. whats the problem?
Yea, she is really "starving", isn't she...? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLIxDgO6Q4E
Only a fascist will defend the Sweden model that violates the free choice and human rights. There's many others ways to fight human trafficking without impose fascist laws forbidding women of freely choose what they want to do of their life. Sweden model is nothing but nazi garbage. People are free to be nazi/fascists in the education of their daughters and family, but a government must respect the human rights and the rights of people to be free to choose what they want to do of ther life. Sweden model is in fact machist and anti-feminist but is supported by the fascists feminists who wants impose their view to all women and make men the ones to blame for all bad things that happen with women. Nazism should have died with Hitler, but is alive and healthy in countries like Sweden and USA.
Police does nothing here in Copenhagen. And when they finally make a razzia and take the women weith them, within 2 days you see new girls. It is disgusting to see old guys talking to those poor girls and you can see the disgust on the girl's face and they can do nothing about it, but just accept the proposal. I hate it, but I honestly don't think a law against prostitution will help much. I feel so sad for those girls and I wish I could do something for the,. Everyday, when I pass them I feel I ought to say something nice but I' kinda scared the pimps will beat the hell off me.
Have sin or moral laws ever worked? They just go to the black market. It actually drives up the price for the added risk. Once again use the laws we have like kidnapping, assualt, etc. Get the slave traders not the slaves.
Slavery, in one of its most sadistic forms, still thrives in the shadows of our streets. The modern day slave trade, called “human trafficking,” is a wealthy business on a global scale. Over 700,000 women are taken prisoner each year in the worldwide network of human trafficking. Approximately 50,000 of these women end up in the United States. To bring the point closer to home, on the East Coast there are many women, ranging between the ages of 14 and 35, being forced into prostitution. In fact, if you live in Raleigh, Miami, Atlanta, DC, or New York, chances are you’ve driven past a brothel without even realizing it.
and there's a easy way to prevent and fight against slavery: regulate brothels. Only a fool thinks a pathetic law like Sweden one can solve the problem, the Sweden law only use is violate human rights and forbidden women to freely choose what they want to do of their life, it's a law based in fake moralism, some fatso fascists and radical feminists hate freedom and fact women can be free to be a sex professional and then use the slavery as excuse to forbid what they hate, this is also imposed by US politicians, prostitution is banned in USA and how it help in the combat of human trafficking? Sweden law only works because Denmark do not copied it, but if Denmark commit this serious mistake then I wanna see if Swedish fascists will be able to say their law is a success, because if Denmark copy it the demand will not decrease and the slavery business will prosper in entire Scandinavia. In USA if you're caught with marijuana you go to jail, USAs who want use it cannot go to Mexico smoke because it's also crime in Mexico, did it reduced the use of marijuana? Entire world knows USA is the largest consumer of marijuana and cocaine. Regulate prostitution, tax it (like Holland now) and use the money to combat human trafficking. This is a democrat and smart way to combat a serious problem, as soon Denmark copy Sweden law we will see the real power of the Swedish law, so let's see if these fascists feminists will be proud of this garbage.
USA media does not give enough attention to the problem here......Cowards or ratings or both??
If one has to resort to buying sex the one is apparently not HEAVILY ENDOWED enought to get it free....or they are some ugly punks
IN a rare late-night session, the Knesset (Israeli Parliament) has finally adopted two obnoxious racist laws.
Both are clearly directed against Arab citizens, a fifth of the population. The first makes it possible to annul the citizenship of persons found guilty of offenses against the security of the state, though annulling citizenship on such grounds is contrary to international law and conventions. The second allows communities of less than 400 families to appoint "admission committees" which can prevent unsuitable persons from living there.
But far worse is a third law that is certain to pass its final stages within a few weeks: The law to outlaw the boycott of the settlements. As it stands now, the law will punish any person or association publicly calling for a boycott of Israel — economic, academic or cultural. "Israel", according to this law, means any Israeli enterprise or person, in Israel or in any territory controlled by Israel. Simply put, it is all about the settlements. And not only about the boycott of the products of the settlements, but also about the recent refusal of actors to perform in the settlement of Ariel and the call by academics not to support the so-called University Center there. It also applies, of course, to any call for the boycott of an Israeli university or an Israeli commercial enterprise.
Everybody has the right to buy or not to buy whatever he or she desires, from whomsoever he or she chooses. I may buy from the store on the corner, because I like the owner, and shun the supermarket opposite, which exploits its employees.
What about ideologically motivated campaigns? Years ago, while on a visit to New York, I was persuaded not to buy grapes produced in California, because the owners oppressed the Mexican migrant workers. This boycott went on for a long time and was — if I remember right — successful. Nobody dared to suggest that such boycotts should be outlawed.
Here in Israel, rabbis of many communities regularly paste up posters calling upon their flock not to buy at certain shops, which they believe are not kosher, or not kosher enough. Such calls are commonplace. Such publications are fully compatible with human rights. Citizens for whom pork is an abomination, have the right to be informed about which shops sell pork and which do not. As far as I know, no one in Israel has ever contested this right.
Sooner or later, some anti-religious groups will publish calls to boycott kosher shops, which pay the rabbis heavy levies for their certificates. They support a vast religious establishment that openly advocates turning Israel into a "Halakha state" — the Jewish equivalent of a Muslim "Shariah state." So what about an anti-rabbinical boycott? It can hardly be forbidden, since religious and anti-religious are guaranteed equal rights.
So it appears that not all ideologically motivated boycotts are wrong. Nor do the initiators of this particular bill — racists of the Lieberman school, Likud rightists and Kadima "centrists" — claim this. For them, boycotts are only wrong if they are directed against the nationalist, annexationist policies of this government.
Boycotts are unlawful if they are directed against the State of Israel — not, for example, by the State of Israel against some other state. No Israeli in his right mind would retroactively condemn the boycott imposed by world Jewry on Germany immediately after the Nazis came to power — a boycott that served as a pretext for Josef Goebbels when he unleashed on April 1, 1933, the first Nazi anti-Semitic boycott. Nor does any upright Zionist find fault with the boycott measures passed by Congress, under intense Jewish pressure, against the late Soviet Union, in order to break down the barriers to free Jewish emigration. These measures were hugely successful.
No less successful was the worldwide boycott against the Apartheid regime in South Africa.
So political boycotts are not wrong, as long as they are directed against others. It's the old "Hottentot morality" of colonial lore — "if I steal your cow, that's right. If you steal my cow, that's wrong." Rightists can call for action against left-wing organizations. Leftists cannot call for action against right-wing organizations. It's as simple as that.
But the law is not only anti-democratic and discriminatory, it is also blatantly annexationist. By a simple semantic trick, in less than a sentence, the lawmakers do what successive Israeli government did not dare to do: They annex the Palestinian occupied territories to Israel. Or maybe it's the other way round: Are the settlers annexing Israel?
The word "settlements" does not appear in the text, much as the word "Arabs" does not appear in any of the other laws. Instead, the text simply states that calls for the boycott of Israel, which are forbidden by the law, include the boycott of Israeli institutions and enterprises in all territories controlled by Israel. This includes, of course, the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights.
This is the core of the matter. Everything else is camouflage. The initiators want to silence our call for boycotting the settlements, which is gathering momentum throughout the world.
The irony of the matter is that they may achieve the exact opposite. When we started the boycott, our stated objective was to draw a clear line between Israel in its recognized borders — the Green Line — and the settlements. We do not advocate a boycott of the State of Israel which, we believe, sends the wrong message. This law, by wiping out the line between the State of Israel and the settlements, plays into the hands of those who call for a boycott of Israel in the belief (mistaken, I think) that a unified apartheid state would pave the way for a democratic future. Recently, the folly of the law was demonstrated by a French judge in Grenoble. This incident concerned the quasi-monopolistic Israeli export company for agricultural products, Agrexco. The judge suspected the company of fraud, because products of the settlements were falsely declared as coming from Israel. This could well be fraud, too, because Israeli exports to Europe are entitled to preferential treatment but the products of the settlements are not.
Such incidents are occurring more and more often in various European countries. This law will cause them to multiply. In the original version, boycotters would have committed a criminal offense and been fined. This clause has now been omitted. But every single company in the settlements and, indeed, every single settler who feels hurt by the boycott can sue — for unlimited damages — any group calling for the boycott and any individual connected with the call. Since the settlers are tightly organized and enjoy unlimited funds from all kinds of casino owners and sleazy sex merchants, they can file thousands of suits and practically paralyze the boycott movement. That, of course, is the aim.
First, Kathleen, your arrogance and ignorance is in full display when your thoughts are expressed. I am a heterosexual and I do wan't an end to human trafficking. One of the ways to put an end to this barbaric crime would be to start shooting these over stimulated perverts in the head. Maybe you also.
What rights are we talking about here? 4/3/11
MADINAH: A court in Madinah acquitted on Saturday a Saudi woman who was sentenced in January to three years in prison for severely torturing her Indonesian housemaid. The sitting judge said there was no evidence that the 53-year-old woman tortured her maid, Sumiati Binti Salan Mustapa, 23, while her lawyer said he would seek damages for his client.
The court suspected the truth of the accusations made by the maid because she refused to take her oath in court, the lawyer representing the defendant, Ahmad Al-Rashid, told Arab News by telephone.
However, Sumiati’s lawyer said he would appeal the verdict as there was convincing evidence to prove that the maid is telling the truth.
During the hearing, the Saudi woman “denied everything, saying that the maid had beaten herself,” an Indonesian consulate official said in an earlier statement.
However, when the judge was shown the photos of the injuries, he reportedly admitted them as conclusive evidence proving that the Indonesian woman was tortured by her employer.
Didi Wahyudi, an Indonesian official responsible for citizens' protection at the Indonesian Consulate, confirmed that the employer was released because the maid allegedly failed to produce concrete evidence during trial. In January, a court in Madinah handed down a three-year jail term to the woman employer for stabbing, beating and burning the 23-year-old maid.
At that time, Sumiati's case was taken up by Indonesian leaders, who sought justice for her and called on the Kingdom to ensure more protection for domestic helpers.
In related news, two Saudi women have been arrested on charges of brutally torturing and killing an Indonesian housemaid in Makkah, while another Indonesian woman was found hanged in the bathroom of her employer in Madinah last week.
In the first case, Darwasih Udin, 37, was taken to the Makkah-based King Faisal Hospital, where she was declared dead.
"The maid, who was taken to the Makkah hospital last Tuesday, died because of severe head injuries," said the Indonesian Consulate's Wahyudi.
In the case of the Madinah maid, her identity and the cause of death could not be ascertained and police are treating it as a case of suicide.
?? How is it that sex can be sold legally, while it is illegal to buy?? What kind of coal feuls that train of thought?!
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It might be expensive for Sweden initially however once demand for commercial sex dries up because of the deterrence on Johns, the purchasers, there wouldn't be much prostitution/human trafficking to fight thereby reducing cost. Other countries should hire these Swedes as consultants. You can't argue with success.
lol... are you kidding? do you really think the Swedish law reduced demand? Do you know prostitution is forbidden in all States of USA? It reduced demand?. Swedishes goes to Denmark (few hours or minutes by train), but if prostitution is banned in Denmark then we will see how great is this law. Remember, you go to jail if you're caught smoking Marijuana, it reduced demand or USA is still the largest consumer of drugs in entire world? And what are the causes of banning something that have high demand like Marijuana? Fascism never worked... all fascists laws did was help criminals and I bet the Swedishes criminals can't wait for Denmark ban, so the business will prosper again in Sweden, Finland and Norway... and this time even worser... if is crime pay for sex to a 18 yrs old, dirty people will prefer waste their money with 14, 15 yrs old... they will go to jail anyway. Regulate is the only way to stop trafficking, this is fact, Swedish law is garbage and if wasn't Denmark it would be a complete fail.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, how you do rattle on. Let me tell you something, and that is, this country of ours, America, is no less guilty of the same thing, including child trafficking, and then we cry over what's going on the Middle East with their child brides to those monsters.
Oh Lord, I said it before, I'll say it again: Nature's worst mistake was to have evolved the human being.
Wow. They found this new approach on how to deal with prostitution by arresting those who solicit their service. What a novel idea. Who would have thought that getting cops to arrest them for breaking the law would work. Perhaps in the near future, they will make all the bus drivers in the city drive a bus - never know, it might work.
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A lot of posters have pointed out that men need to have sex to maintain their physical and mental health. If some cannot get their needs met from women short of prostitution or rape, they should just have it with each other and kill two birds with one stone, so to speak.
Sometimes it seems like men feel entitled to have their needs met ALL THE TIME and cant possibly go without. Noone has ever died from not enough sex.
I'm not fat or a lesbian or a feminazi, i'm educated and don't have to HAVE a man pay my way. But I'd like to have one to be my companion and I'd like to meet his needs. But then men who get that complain becuas they look at too much porn and expect real women to act like porn stars. i'm not talking about porn addicts but normal men who look at porn here and there. It's like if they dont get sex they are compelled to go to prostitutes and if they get sex it's not good enough unless it's porn sex. Women like variety too and I'm not a woman who feels entitled to anything but I've met a lot of men who feel so damn entitled it sickening.
there are old fashioned, sweet girls out there like me who arent feminists and want to please a man but a lot of times what men say they want and what they REALLY want doesn't match up.
Sex trafficking by force is awful and should be punished by law. Maybe prostitution should be legalized, but only for the use of single males. Any married males should not be allowed to visit a prostititue since they took a vow to be faithful.
And if their wife is not giving them sex and they have done EVERYTHIING in their power to try to fix the problem they should get a divorce but not cheat.
The cause of this ´modern slavery´ isn´t buying or selling sex; it is the fact that people are being categorized in two groups: legal, and illegal. Those in the latter group have less rights. Something else that isn´t mentioned in the article is that the great majority of prostitutes choose to do that job. It makes them way more money than in any other profession. They are not a ´victim of circumstance´, just women who believe that having sex for money is better than cleaning toilets.
What the article also fails to mention is that Stockholm is the ´rape capital of Europe´(http://www.thelocal.se/19102/20090427/). Could there be a connection between criminalizing buying sex and the instance of rape? Not hard to imagine that a not so good looking man has a hard time fulfilling his sexual desires in Sweden.
While I don´t challenge the occurrence of forced prostitution, I do believe criminalizing is not the solution. People have a right to sell their hand labor as well as the use of the rest of their bodies. The solution is giving illegals work permits that allow them to do any job they choose and grant them the same rights as a citizen.
thanks for the link... then this pathetic nazi/fascist law violates human rights twice: one forbidding women to freely choose their profession and second contributing to rape. Congratulations for Sweden, isn't easy make a law that violates twice the human rights. What's next? Send Assange to be killed in USA? And think Sweden was once called a free country... it's hard built a real democracy but to destroy it one pen and a bunch of nazis is enough.
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